David Irving Jailed

PzJgr · #1 (**permalink**) November 17th, 2005, 07:43 PM

Right-wing British historian David Irving, who once famously said that Adolf Hitler knew nothing about the systematic slaughter of 6 million Jews, has been arrested in Austria on a warrant accusing him of denying the Holocaust.

Irving, 67, was detained Nov. 11 in the southern province of Styria on a warrant issued in 1989 under Austrian laws making Holocaust denial a crime, police Maj. Rudolf Gollia, a spokesman for the Interior Ministry, said Thursday.

Austrian media said the charges stemmed from speeches Irving delivered that year in Vienna and in the southern town of Leoben. In a statement posted on his Web site, Irving's supporters said he was arrested while on a one-day visit to Vienna, where they said he had been invited "by courageous students to address an ancient university association."

Despite precautions taken by Irving, he was arrested by police who allegedly learned of his visit "by wiretaps or intercepting e-mails," the statement alleged. It said that en route to Austria, Irving had privately visited German playwright Rolf Hochhuth, a friend he had not seen in 20 years.

Hochhuth has gained notoriety for plays criticizing the Allies' bombing campaigns during World War II as war crimes and characterizing Winston Churchill as a war criminal. Earlier this year, Hochhuth was criticized for defending Irving as "an honorable man" and insisting he was not a Holocaust denier.

Austrian authorities had no immediate comment on the supporters' statement. The Britain-based Holocaust Educational Trust congratulated Austrian authorities on the arrest. Trust chairman Lord Greville Janner, noting that Britain has no such laws that make denying the Holocaust a crime, praised the Austrians "for doing what our law should but does not permit." "I hope this will lead to a successful prosecution," Janner said.

Irving in the past has faced allegations of spreading anti-Semitic and racist ideas. He is the author of nearly 30 books, including "Hitler's War," which challenges the extent of the Holocaust.

Besides his assertion that Hitler knew nothing about the Holocaust, he also has been quoted as saying there was "not one shred of evidence" that the Nazis carried out their "Final Solution" on such a scale.

The historian has said he does not deny that Jews were killed by the Nazis, but he challenges the number and manner of Jewish concentration camp deaths.

He has questioned the use of large-scale gas chambers to exterminate the Jews and has claimed that the numbers of those who perished are far lower than those generally accepted. He also contends that most Jews who died at Auschwitz did so from diseases like typhus, not gas poisoning. Irving remained in custody Thursday at a prison in Graz, 120 miles south of Vienna, the Austria Press Agency reported, although that could not be confirmed.

If formally charged, tried and convicted, he could face up to 20 years in prison, said Otto Schneider of the public prosecutor's office.

But Schneider said it was unclear whether there were sufficient legal grounds to continue holding Irving on such a charge so many years after the alleged offense was committed. A decision was expected by the end of next week on how to proceed, Schneider said.

In March, more than 200 historians from around the world petitioned C-SPAN to cancel a project that would have included a speech by Irving as a counterpoint to a lecture by Deborah Lipstadt, a renowned Holocaust expert at Emory University.

Irving once sued Lipstadt for libel for calling him a Holocaust denier, but his lawsuit was dismissed in 2000 by a British court, which ruled that Irving was anti-Semitic and racist and misrepresented historical information.

His film, "The Search for the Truth in History," triggered protests in Australia that led organizers of the Melbourne Underground Film Festival to cancel a screening. Irving has had numerous run-ins with the law over the years. In 1992, a judge in Germany fined him the equivalent of $6,000 for publicly insisting the Nazi gas chambers at Auschwitz were a hoax.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051117/...rving_arrested

The_Historian · #2 (**permalink**) November 17th, 2005, 09:28 PM

Seems appropriate to post this here....
Jews' belongings unearthed at Polish camp

bigiceman · #3 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 01:35 AM

The thing that comes to my mind on a person like this, is why? Why do they want to minimize the truth? What goal will it serve? Is it their conscience? Are they outraged at the blame placed upon an organization they fancy? Are they just racists who have been taught that those who are different then they are should be hated and disbelieved and destroyed?

It is scary that in the information age people can choose to be so uninformed.

Otto · #4 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by PzJgr:
....Irving, 67, was detained Nov. 11....

*italics added by me*

Seems like a fitting date to arrest him as well.

bigiceman · #5 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 09:14 AM

Missed that earlier. You are right Otto, a very fitting day indeed.

Martin Bull · #6 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 09:27 AM

Since the High Court case in 2000, Irving has been totally sidelined among WWII historians. He has published no new books, and his works are now very rarely cited in bibliographies.

His 'following' is now only among the fringes of the far-Right.

Mahross · #7 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

The thing that comes to my mind on a person like this, is why? Why do they want to minimize the truth? What goal will it serve? Is it their conscience? Are they outraged at the blame placed upon an organization they fancy? Are they just racists who have been taught that those who are different then they are should be hated and disbelieved and destroyed?

I would be careful with this. While I certainly do not agree with Irving, his ideas are nothing new. He is just attempting to revise our understanding, yes he is doing it in the wring way, however, what he is doing is nothing new. Historians are always attemoting to challenge our understanding of events. Irving is essentially only following an ascertion on the role of Hitler. That is was he the Master of the Third Reich or a Weak Dictator. If we take the latter then he knew all and ordered the Holocaust. However, a certain amount of research in recent years has argued that becuase of the nature of rule in the Third Reich, that is Hitler's divide and rule method, he may not of known about it and that it was section of the government vyeing for position and power. In essence Irving is only trying to add to the debate. Is only crime is the subject and the veracity of his arguement. The same occured with Goldhagen's book Hitler's Willing Executioners.

Martin - I agree I have noticed that more authors are afraid to touch his works lately. However, his earlier works were very good and should not be discounted. Historians just like everyone else change their ideas over time and this is what has seemingly happened with Irving. As such do not discount his earlier works just on the basis of what is happening in the here and now. Read them and form an opinion.

Ross

Martin Bull · #8 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 02:28 PM

I always recommend this book when Irving crops up and make no apologies for doing so again : ' Telling Lies About Hitler' by Richard J Evans.

Superb reading, and totally essential for an understanding of Irving's work and controversy.

And Deborah Lipstadt doesn't come out of it too well, either...... [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

Mahross · #9 (**permalink**) November 18th, 2005, 04:27 PM

Martin - That sounds like a good book. I'll have to look it up. It is a shame about Irving. Like I say I do not condone his attitude. Just sometimes some people need perspective on it. This is one of th issues with contemporary history, it still hurts some people.

Ross

bigiceman · #10 (**permalink**) November 19th, 2005, 01:25 AM

I know that as the years go by there are more and more facts and documents unearthed concerning the Third Reich. Historical review has sometimes changed the popular perception of what the truth is. I do not know Irving's work, I guess I jumped the gun thinking that it was similar to the work I saw and commented on a few weeks ago. This was quite a piece of work and attempted to paint the treatment of Jews during the Nazi era as overstated and that the Jews had mostly come out alright. I still don't know why people like that do it. I guess I don't know why Irving does it either.

Kai-Petri · #11 (**permalink**) November 20th, 2005, 10:26 AM

Quote:

... warrant issued in 1989 under Austrian laws making Holocaust denial a crime

Wrong country then Herr Irving!

redcoat · #12 (**permalink**) November 20th, 2005, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigiceman:
I do not know Irving's work, I guess I jumped the gun thinking that it was similar to the work I saw and commented on a few weeks ago. This was quite a piece of work and attempted to paint the treatment of Jews during the Nazi era as overstated and that the Jews had mostly come out alright.

You didn't get it wrong, thats what Irving claims.
Like Martin Bull I would recommend you read Evans book 'Lying about Hitler'.
Evans not only found falsehoods in his books about the holocaust, but in his earlier books as well.
All Irvings works are so biased that they are worthless for historical studies .

T. A. Gardner · #13 (**permalink**) November 21st, 2005, 03:10 AM

I would also suggest Michael Shermer's book Why People Believe Weird Things. Shermer takes Irving and the whole Holocaust denial crew off at the knees.

The_Historian · #14 (**permalink**) November 22nd, 2005, 04:42 PM

This is new apparently:
Holocaust book yields new insights.

Martin Bull · #15 (**permalink**) November 22nd, 2005, 05:56 PM

Not wishing to split hairs, but I don't understand their linking Irving's denial with the fact that 45% of Britons have apparently never heard of Auschwitz. On the contrary,the Irving case has stimulated a vast amount of media discussion.....

Martin Bull · #16 (**permalink**) November 28th, 2005, 07:26 PM

The London Guardian carried a front-page report about this today - apparently, the case is causing a major stir in Austria with Liberals arguing Irving's case to be free to air his opinions. It is also highlighting Austria's less-than-shining record with regard to the prosecution of Nazi war criminals , with the Simon Wiesenthal Centre confirming that co-operation from Austrian authorities is very poor.

And Irving ? He is in Josefstadt Jail awaiting trial, and through his lawyer is said to be 'Quite comfortable. He speaks fluent German and has no problems with the other prisoners. He's patient, he's reading, he's writing...'

David Irving is probably quietly laughing to himself. If there's one thing that he thrives on, it's publicity. The best way to deal with him, is to ignore him.

Kai-Petri · #17 (**permalink**) November 29th, 2005, 08:47 AM

Agreed. If anybody wins anything here it´s Irving probably. Maybe that´s why he is in Austria in the first place to be "a martyr " of his own ideology...

Kai-Petri · #18 (**permalink**) December 27th, 2005, 06:49 PM

Irving finds his books in Austrian jail library

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/1532926/posts

Martin Bull · #19 (**permalink**) December 27th, 2005, 09:25 PM

Signing both bokks - a typical Irving touch. The Austrian authorities seem to be tying themselves up in knots over this whole affair - better to have simply ignored the man. [img]graemlins/no.gif[/img]

PzJgr · #20 (**permalink**) December 28th, 2005, 03:22 PM

Totally agree. Irving's name is leaving a bad taste in my mouth.