Pics : 'Wartime Hell'

Martin Bull · #1 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 06:42 AM

'..Oberfuhrer Harmel and his command group stood just before the bridge at St. Lambert....this was the deepest depth of wartime hell that had yet been reached....' (from 'In The Firestorm Of The Last Years Of The War' by Wilhelm Tieke)

'The river was choked with wreckage and with the bodies of men and horses, the dead and wounded lying together in ghastly heaps....'

I've never seen such good Autumn weather in France as we had last week ; it was really a quite bizarre experience to stroll in such peaceful countryside and try in some way to imagine what happened here.

This is a close-up of the infamous Moissy Ford across which the remnants of two German armies escaped the Pocket - Panthers, Stugs and Panzer IVs are recorded as having crossed at this point.....

Erich · #2 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 02:45 PM

Martin although you are focusing on the M.Ford area have and I just might be confusing the area but where the 2nd SS Pz regt. blew a hole through the Polish armor to somewhat secure the escape route for the demented Pz. units ?

Sloniksp · #3 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 03:54 PM

Great pics, keep em' coming!

Martin Bull · #4 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 04:26 PM

Erich, here's a view of the battlefield taken exactly from the Polish position on Mont Ormel. Moissy Ford is roughly left-of-centre in the photo, in the trees. St Lambert sur Dives is toward the right and the River Dives flows left-to-right, centre of photo. The German forces were advancing toward this position and escaping up the Chambois/Vimoutiers road ( out-of-shot to the left ) or through the 'Corridor of Death' ( line of trees to the right ).

The 2nd SS Panzer counterattack came from the Vimoutiers area which is directly behind me on the other side of the hill ....

Erich · #5 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 04:34 PM

excellent ! now the question as I do not have my W-SS refs in front of me, was the Waffen SS escape attack dual fold or together..meaning was the 2nd SS attacking or trying to escape in accord with the 9th W-SS or independently and after the hole punching did the remnants of the W-SS Harmel/9th W-SS and other SS elements escape through it ?

yeah I know too many questions, sorry but I just do not know that much about that nasty ugly cauldron of doom except it was a last gasp German hell hole as Sapper once pointed out

Za Rodinu · #6 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 04:38 PM

Take a long, hard look at this picture and try to understand why heights are important and how far away the horizon is for people on the ground. How important is it if your Pak43 will pierce any Sherman out to 2000m if he can't se squat after 200-400m

sommecourt · #7 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 09:09 PM

Great photos, Martin. A most interesting part of the Normandy battlefields, for sure.

Wessex Wyvern · #8 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 09:33 PM

Excellent photos Martin, I would like to add to your reputation but I'm told I have to share it out with others before I can add to yours again.

Slipdigit · #9 (**permalink**) September 28th, 2007, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wessex Wyvern

Excellent photos Martin, I would like to add to your reputation but I'm told I have to share it out with others before I can add to yours again.

Got it for you Owen.

Did you ever get my mp3 I sent you?

Martin Bull · #10 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich

was the Waffen SS escape attack dual fold or together..meaning was the 2nd SS attacking or trying to escape in accord with the 9th W-SS or independently and after the hole punching did the remnants of the W-SS Harmel/9th W-SS and other SS elements escape through it ?

Early on August 19th ( as the actions at St Lambert and Moissy were almost at their peak ) II.SS-Panzerkorps ordered 2. and 9. SS-Panzerdivisions to attack from the area of Vimoutiers-Exmes ; 9.SS to to attack with a small attack force through St Gervais to Louvieres and the main force to move through Champeaux to Trun. 2.SS to attack through Champosoult to St Lambert and Chambois.

It must be remembered that only remnants of these units existed and were considerably exhausted and disorganized, having just fought their way out of the Cauldron. The attack could not be mounted immediately, but assembly positions were successfully organized during the night of 19/20 August.

The counterattack started at 04:00 on the 20th ; 2.SS-Panzerdivision ( supported by SS-Werfer Bn. 102 ) crossed the Vimoutiers-Chambois road and attacked the rear of the 1st Polish Tank Division , reaching Coudehard/Mont Ormel ( just behind and to the right of where I took the 'panoramic' photo ). 9.SS-Panzerdivision, advancing via Champeaux, protected the Northern flank of 2.SS.

The Poles successfully prevented the SS units from reaching their objectives of Trun/St Lambert/Chambois in the valley below ; but the fierce fighting on Mont Ormel during the 20th and until mid-day on the 21st allowed many more Germans to escape the Pocket along the Chambois/Vimoutiers road.

A most dramatic incident.

FalkeEins · #11 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 11:47 AM

[quote=Martin Bull;239791]Erich, here's a view of the battlefield taken exactly from the Polish position on Mont Ormel.[quote]

....Martin's panoramic view covers the area depicted on this map located near the Canadian memorial on the road leading down into the village of St. Lambert..the black lines represent the German escape route..Mont Ormel is to the top of the map...the Poles and the Canadians found themselves right in the path of the retreating Germans...(Didier Lodieu's book 'La Massue' describes the German attempts to dislodge them...)

nice shots Martin ..and you were lucky with the weather..when we were there in August it rained all day !!

Martin Bull · #12 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 12:01 PM

The wether we enjoyed was stunning. Here's a pic looking back down the 'Corridor Of Death' after the tarmac stops and it becomes just a farm track on the approach to the left side of Mont Ormel....

A pleasant countryside stroll in 2007.....

Richard · #13 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 12:31 PM

It's hard to believe over 60 years ago a struggle took place when you look at those pictures, thank you Martin for sharing these wonderful pictures with us all.

Slipdigit · #14 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard

It's hard to believe over 60 years ago a struggle took place when you look at those pictures, thank you Martin for sharing these wonderful pictures with us all.

The bad thing about it is, the area probably looked very much like it does now. So, in beauty, the men there may have only seen death.

Wessex Wyvern · #15 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 07:20 PM

Thought I'd add this short extract from a longer piece from Art Bridge, a rifleman in 14 Platoon, C Company ,Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders of Canada.

Quote:

B Company was holding the houses at the extreme south end of St Lambert and for some reason we kept going down the road, out of town, towards Chambois which is about a mile and a half further on. By now it was quite dark with visibility provided by burning houses or vehicles which had been knocked out along the road. Since we had not been made aware of the gravity of our position, we were having a ball scrounging through the trucks along the way, with no particular feeling of concern (the rum?).
We had covered half the distance to Chambois , to a hamlet called MOISSY, when a machine gun opened up on the front of the column. We were spread out in single file and the OC and two or three others were hit by the burst. As the firing continued and we couldn't tell where it came from , we took to the shelter of the ditch and started shooting back at the unseen enemy, who were close by as they began throwing hand grenades at us.
One of their grenades fell among several of us in the ditch and exploded, making a lot of noise but causing little damage.
With the OC out of commission there was considerable confusion in our ranks, as nobody seemed to know what was going on, so we simply lay there in the ditch for awhile , as CSM George Mitchell and our platoon officer, Lt Phil Whithead, tried to figure out what to do next. Ants from a disturbed anthill made waiting uncomfortable.
Finally when the shooting let up we took off through a farmyad into an orchard a couple of hundred yards off the road, where we took up positions and waited some more. It had been a long day and wariness took it's toll I fell asleep lying there in the dark. Not for long , though, as there were Germans all about , and we nabbed a few prisoners there in the orchard.
Eventually it was decided that we should return to St Lambert and rejoin B Company and the South Albertas for the night

.

Lots more where that came from, my fingers hurt at the moment.

Martin Bull · #16 (**permalink**) September 29th, 2007, 08:29 PM

Great stuff, WW - and it gives me an excuse to include yet another photo - taken in the centre of St Lambert, looking in the direction of Moissy & Chambois - the bank on the right can be seen in the well-known wartime photos of a knocked-out Tiger.....

jagdpanther44 · #17 (**permalink**) October 23rd, 2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Bull

The wether we enjoyed was stunning. Here's a pic looking back down the 'Corridor Of Death' after the tarmac stops and it becomes just a farm track on the approach to the left side of Mont Ormel....

A pleasant countryside stroll in 2007.....

Martin, how far from the Moissy Ford is the spot where this photograph was taken?

I am going back to Normandy next week, Moissy in particular, for another rummage through the hedges.

I just hope the Channel crossing (Portsmouth to Ouistreham) is a smooth one.

Wessex Wyvern · #18 (**permalink**) October 23rd, 2007, 08:56 PM

John,
If you get to St Lambert can you try some then & nows with these?
(edit)Sorry links don't work,I've deleted them but have a decko here.
Canada at War - Photo: Normandy - Falaise

Infantrymen of "B" Company, The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders of Canada, riding in a captured German truck with German prisoners, St. Lambert-sur-Dives, France, 19 August 1944.

More German prisoners of war captured by Major Currie's men.

Officers and soldiers of the 2nd Panzer Division surrender to Canadian soldiers in St. Lambert-sur- Dives, France. Major David Currie (third from left, holding pistol) won his Victoria Cross during this engagement.

jagdpanther44 · #19 (**permalink**) October 23rd, 2007, 09:33 PM

Hi Wessex, i was planning to do a 'then and now' set of photographs which i will post as soon as i get back.

I have a photograph of the spot where Major Currie took the surrender of german prisoners that i took on a previous visit to the area.

The only problem is that it is to large a file to post.

scarface · #20 (**permalink**) October 24th, 2007, 12:56 AM

Wow, Martin - those are great photographs by themselves - and, combined with the history that they reperesent, a fascinating 'Then and Now' bit of history.

Thanks for sharing them.

-whatever

-Lou

(I was told I have to spread the rep around, too!...... where's Za when you need him???)