Re: Nazi Hunters

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #1 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 08:35 AM

Rory Carroll and Uki Goñi on the hunt in Argentina for Aribert Heim, the last of the Nazis | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

I appreciate it's a controversial subject matter ,however ,if any of you guys wish to have a contructive debate without politics or sledging I will would be extremely interested to hear your view points.

18mile · #2 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM

I for one think it's high time to move on, or start hunting 'all' of the nere-do-wells, from all wars who may still be alive. There are worse out there than some old man from 67 yrs. ago. But I guess it all depends on the agenda, huh?

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #3 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 06:39 PM

I see the debate is gathering up speed.

Sloniksp · #4 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 07:46 PM

I say go for them. While there might very well be more dangerous threats out there, the families which suffered unimaginable horrors in the hands of these monsters deserve closer.

I for one dont care how old they are.

bigfun · #5 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 08:05 PM

^^^^^^
ditto!
You can tell the families who lost everyhting and then some to let them go!
I think they might have something to say about that!

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #6 (**permalink**) January 8th, 2008, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloniksp

I for one dont care how old they are.

I have to agree. I just think it's shame they didn't get to them earlier. There's loads of them, or should I say their families , still living in Brazil .

It's simply a case of justice not age.

von Rundstedt · #7 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 02:09 AM

When does Justice fade and pure cold revenge begin.

To arrest and deport someone in their late eighties or early nineties is in my opinion is disgusting, i can't also understand if these pillars of justice go after Nazis for what they did then why they don't go after Japanese war criminals that are still alive today, because Japan would never allow them to be deported to face war crimes. It is time to get on with life. To those who still say they are deeply affected today, i can sympathise with them, but playing the perpetual victim 63 years after the event is sad.

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #8 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 07:55 AM

The call for Justice in my opinion extends to the life span of the criminal. However, I do agree with your points about the Japanese. My great uncle was captured at Singapore and like many others suffered and endured things we will never comprehend.

Sloniksp · #9 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by von Rundstedt

When does Justice fade and pure cold revenge begin.

Justice is going for the men responsible. Revenge would also be going after their families.

Sad is what these men did NOT how old they were when they were captured.

As for Japan, I agree. Plenty of criminals there which need to answer for what they did. Unfortunately this is where plain old politics come into play and not enough international pressure. China till this day is furious for this exact reason.

chocapic · #10 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 03:13 PM

Crime against humanity are not prescriptible.

If they get caught before they die like the hidden rats they are, they'll be tried in court.

Then, if they fancy, they'll have the right to use such a laughable defense system like "Yeah, OK, I did these experimentations on Jews, but I have the excuse that many Japanese criminals against humanity escaped prosecutions, so I guess I'm free to go now." – We'll see what they get

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #11 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sloniksp

Justice is be going for the men responsible. Revenge would also be going after their families.

Sad is what these men did NOT how old they were when they were captured.

As for Japan, I agree. Plenty of criminals there which need to answer for what they did. Unfortunately this is where plain old politics come into play and not enough international pressure. China till this day is furious for this exact reason.

What an excellent example of injustice. Ah, you're so right to mention the chinese, isn't is funny how we've ignored them. In fact, I always think about the Burmese peoples plight to obtain Democracy especially when the international community continually ignore the fascist regime they have to live under. Still thats off topic.

alephh · #12 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 07:02 PM

Do you think those helping the nazi war criminals should also be hunted down and punished?

Like for example the CIA, which hired nazi monster Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon, who personally tortured people. Go democracy go.

You have to draw the line somewhere (age: if he's going to die soon anyways, expenses: spending millions of dollars to hunt down one man, helpers: CIA and democratic countries)...

_

Sloniksp · #13 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alephh

Do you think those helping the nazi war criminals should also be hunted down and punished?

Like for example the CIA, which hired nazi monster Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon, who personally tortured people. Go democracy go.

You have to draw the line somewhere (age: if he's going to die soon anyways, expenses: spending millions of dollars to hunt down one man, helpers: CIA and democratic countries)...

_

Excellent points!

Unfortunately you are correct. $$ plays a huge factor these days.

GrossBorn · #14 (**permalink**) January 9th, 2008, 10:42 PM

I agree that the disparity between how Nazi and Japanese war criminals were/are treated is not fair. I'm sure there are many Japanese war criminals that participated in the Rape of Nanking, torture and murder of Allied prisoners, murders of conquered civilians, etc. that are now pillars of or have retired as corporate officers of many Japanese companies.
With that said, I think the pursuit of and prosecution of 80 and 90 year old men is now just being done for revenge, not justice.

chocapic · #15 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 08:07 AM

1st I think it's a good thing to have a minimum understanding of the subject.

Crime against humanity and war crimes are different things, Nanking = crime againsts humanity, killing prisonners = war crimes, check this out gents

Even if both are not precriptible in time, the war crimes prosecution can have the 'justice by the victors' taste. Crime against humanity don't.Have you at least read the 1st post link ?

About this being a revenge, I'd reply that a crime against humanity has it's definition in its own name, it's a crime against me and you. I have no relatives that died in concentration camps. The special nature of this crimes justifies the fact that they are not prescriptible, but that's only a personal opinion – otherwise I think that "standard" crimes prescription is a good thing

But when I hear "Scandal old timer nazi criminals against humanity are still prosecuted." Instead of "Scandal, some Japanese criminals against humanity escaped prosecution" I always suspect stinky afterthougts.

You can check in this very forum :

- how many topics have been opened about Japanese criminals against humanity escaping prosecution ?

- how many times the above subject has been raised, just to critisize or discuss the prosecution of Nazi criminals ?

Makes me wonder about the motives...do some people really care about Japanes criminals, or maybe they don't give a damn, they only care about leaving Nazi criminals alone, but they got more brains than balls, so they raise the politicaly correct Japanese criminal issue.

Kind of reminds me the "Yes, Hitler was a bad guy, but Stalin was no better" crap.

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #16 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocapic

1st I think it's a good thing to have a minimum understanding of the subject.

Crime against humanity and war crimes are different things, Nanking = crime againsts humanity, killing prisonners = war crimes, check this out gents

Even if both are not precriptible in time, the war crimes prosecution can have the 'justice by the victors' taste. Crime against humanity don't.Have you at least read the 1st post link ?

About this being a revenge, I'd reply that a crime against humanity has it's definition in its own name, it's a crime against me and you. I have no relatives that died in concentration camps. The special nature of this crimes justifies the fact that they are not prescriptible, but that's only a personal opinion – otherwise I think that "standard" crimes prescription is a good thing

But when I hear "Scandal old timer nazi criminals against humanity are still prosecuted." Instead of "Scandal, some Japanese criminals against humanity escaped prosecution" I always suspect stinky afterthougts.

You can check in this very forum :

- how many topics have been opened about Japanese criminals against humanity escaping prosecution ?

- how many times the above subject has been raised, just to critisize or discuss the prosecution of Nazi criminals ?

Makes me wonder about the motives...do some people really care about Japanes criminals, or maybe they don't give a damn, they only care about leaving Nazi criminals alone, but they got more brains than balls, so they raise the politicaly correct Japanese criminal issue.

Kind of reminds me the "Yes, Hitler was a bad guy, but Stalin was no better" crap.

Crikey mate you almost infer I'm involved in a worldwide conspirancy. Give me a chance I only been on here for a couple of weeks.

All democratic governments should use their information and available resourses to go after all of them where ever they are or what ever country they represent.

A crime against humanity must not be ignored

chocapic · #17 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 10:52 AM

I agree with your last post, my comments were not against you (well...your nickname

).

Just a rant against people who say "leave all criminals against humanity alone" instead of "get them all",

And an even stronger rant agaisnt people who don't care about Japanese criminals against humanity, but use them as an excuse to say that we should leave nazis alone, because they get hard on their fancy ubersoldiers uniforms since they're 12 years old

SS-Hauptsturmfuhrer · #18 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocapic

I agree with your last post, my comments were not against you (well...your nickname

).

Just a rant against people who say "leave all criminals against humanity alone" instead of "get them all",

And an even stronger rant agaisnt people who don't care about Japanese criminals against humanity, but use them as an excuse to say that we should leave nazis alone, because they get hard on their fancy ubersoldiers uniforms since they're 12 years old

LOL, I agree completely, Nazi chic is just so Passe. However, I have more than a passing interest in Panzer Tanks.

Sloniksp · #19 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocapic

1st I think it's a good thing to have a minimum understanding of the subject.

Crime against humanity and war crimes are different things, Nanking = crime againsts humanity, killing prisonners = war crimes, check this out gents

Even if both are not precriptible in time, the war crimes prosecution can have the 'justice by the victors' taste. Crime against humanity don't.Have you at least read the 1st post link ?

About this being a revenge, I'd reply that a crime against humanity has it's definition in its own name, it's a crime against me and you. I have no relatives that died in concentration camps. The special nature of this crimes justifies the fact that they are not prescriptible, but that's only a personal opinion – otherwise I think that "standard" crimes prescription is a good thing

But when I hear "Scandal old timer nazi criminals against humanity are still prosecuted." Instead of "Scandal, some Japanese criminals against humanity escaped prosecution" I always suspect stinky afterthougts.

You can check in this very forum :

- how many topics have been opened about Japanese criminals against humanity escaping prosecution ?

- how many times the above subject has been raised, just to critisize or discuss the prosecution of Nazi criminals ?

Makes me wonder about the motives...do some people really care about Japanes criminals, or maybe they don't give a damn, they only care about leaving Nazi criminals alone, but they got more brains than balls, so they raise the politicaly correct Japanese criminal issue.

Kind of reminds me the "Yes, Hitler was a bad guy, but Stalin was no better" crap.

Attention everybody, our French Philosopher has returned!!!

bigfun · #20 (**permalink**) January 10th, 2008, 05:30 PM

This subject has come up several times in my short time here! And I always wonder what the true motive is for bringing this up as well Choco. Because I as expand my minimal knowledge of WWII, I read about the Japanese being held accountable for their actions. I wonder if our focus isn't on the ETO simply because that is what we are interested in!? Just a thought.

von Rundstedt · #21 (**permalink**) January 16th, 2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alephh

Do you think those helping the nazi war criminals should also be hunted down and punished?

Like for example the CIA, which hired nazi monster Klaus Barbie, the Butcher of Lyon, who personally tortured people. Go democracy go.

You have to draw the line somewhere (age: if he's going to die soon anyways, expenses: spending millions of dollars to hunt down one man, helpers: CIA