What is going on in Washington???

These are the actions of a man who knows for certain that he is not going to get caught.

 

Down here, the bastard is known as "The Beltway Sniper"

 

If you do a Google search under the words
Israeli, Sniper, & Kidon (Israeli assassination team) you come up with MY name: Knight Templar on WW2 Forums!!!
And that's just one page of results.
Big Brother must be monitoring these posts.
They're keeping an eye on me because I know too much!
.
Hold on... there's a knock at the door...

 

That's not what I got. Shucks, must be doing something wrong.

 

Mustang:
It's actually two pages now.
WW2forums is the only item on page 2.
I just checked.

 

OK, admittedly, I had a bit of smoke after arriving home tonight...
But then I turned on the news for a bit, and "caught up" on the sniper news.
What the hell is going on with this???
OK, so just in the last two days, following the 12th shooting, at the Ponderosa Steakhouse... just the news following that...

The cops find a note at the scene...
The cops go on TV- and say, "we got youur note, it listed a phone number, call us at that number and we can talk."
(OK- the sniper leaves a note, then the cops ask him to call them at that number? What, did he leave them a note with Chief Moose's home phone?)
Then, today...
I read in NYTimes, I read that the cops are preparing a response to the sniper- meaning they did apparently hear from him.
THEN- this afternoon- Chief Moose comes back out and says, "we could not understand all of you're message. Parts were unclear, we want you to call back so we can fully understand you."
OK... so the guy apparently did leave a message, but the cops couldn't understand it???
MEANWHILE- two men are detained this afternoon in VA (?)- driving a white van. The later, the men are determined to be not in any way related to the sniper.
BUT- they turn out to be illegal aliens ???


(UPDATE-Later)
OK, according to the news... last night, the police actually got a phone tip telling them about the note. This phone tip came from a payphone- supposely, the cops put this payphone under surveillance. These illegal aliens- they just happened to pull up to said payphone in a white van. Wrong place, wrong time, according to the news...

My guess.... the guys in the white van were illegal aliens who were already being watched in some way or another... or maybe just really unlucky. But I bet their arrest was just so publicized (and initially scrutinized) because of the white van thing.
Now, with the Sniper, I really still don't have too much of a theory. I guess, this is starting to seem more like a serial killer. The media games... all thursday and friday, news people were going on about how the sniper had not killed anyone on the weekend, so people were "hoping things would remain calm"... So fittingly, saturday night, right in the middle of the weekend, the sniper shoots someone. And now this note thing...
And it is rare, but not unprecedented, for serial killer-types to work together. The big thing that makes this guy or guys seem unlike a serial killer is the detachment from the victims. While some (again, few) serial killers have seemed to randomly choose victims, all that I can come up with killed in a very personal way. These sick mistakes (hey, people this far gone... what else shoud we call them?) want to dominate their victims, for their victims to know who is killing them. This is often what makes serial killers, especially those like Dahmer, Lucas, Gein, so repulsive- their crimes seem "to go against humanity".
This sniper seems very different- he (again, or them) seem completely detached from their victims.

In some ways... this "sniper" almost seems most concerned with the reactions of the media and the public at large, as opposed to his victims.

(I don't mean to creep anyone out here- Both myself and especially my significant other (ain't she darling!) have studied abnormal psychology and serial killers a decent amount.)

I'd be curious to hear any other theories or comments...

(Knight, I'm not buying into an Israeli conspiracy here, but I'd even like to hear all the problems you've found with the info we're getting!)



[ 21 October 2002, 06:57 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ]

 

Is he French?? That seems to be the latest story/theory. What the hell, I just wish they'd get him. The police in America can't be that bad...

 

Look, the police doesn't have much to go on. This serial killer, like many, has basically all the cards in his hands. They thrive on ,indeed, domination, the 'being in control'. I am sure he also gets a kick out of all the media coverage. He feels he IS somebody now. He might not have felt like that prior.He wants to be acknowledged. He might already have been in touch with the police. Apparantly many criminals (serial or not) involve themselves somehow with the investigation. Maybe he has been interviewed as an inhabitant of a housing block close to one of the shootings. Who knows.

As to his random selection of targets; the people he shoots are beyond his point, not his concern. They are mere pawns in his 'masterplan', a means to an end. In this he is not uncommon. There seldom is a relation between the serial killer and their victims. Circumstances provide his victims here. Like being 'in the wrong place at the wrong time'. This guy is obviously not concerned with any other issue like sex, race, social status and the likes. His aim is to get attention and media coverage. He wants to be someone. It is anybody's guess if he was abused by his father, his schoolchums teased him at school, or the army didn't want him. This is one frustrated individual who probably sees himself as superiour over 'the proffessionals', i.e. law enforcement.

Why did the killing stop for a few days? Maybe he had his mom over. This guy or guys do live rather normal besides going on the rampage. To me it seesm these attacks are deliberate. Not so much the result of a urging to go out and kill. I might be wrong here, of course, but it all seem deliberate and calculated to me.

My guess is he will make a mistake. He is bound to. This thing needs to go to another level. He has made his point. Now it is time to communicate with his hunters. He wants to show how smart he is….maybe he even wants to be caught. Deep down inside his miserable brain he knows that what he is doing is disorted. And that he needs to be stopped.

 

Good points, Stevin.
I did a little more checking last night, and this guy is actually not the first "serial sniper". There have actually been a few other killeres like this, although I don't have any names right now. I saw one guest on Fox News, some serial killer expert, who said she was invovled in a similar case at the moment, and could not release the name. It just seems that this sniper is getting away with much more.
Stevin, I wonder about one issue. You mention correctly that many serial killers (about half) lead a relatively normal home life- at least they can appear to do so. "He was a good neighbor", etc... Even the whole abuse at the hands of parents thing is common, but not universal.
I think this guy is probably different. I have a felling that once this guy (again, or guys) are caught, we are going ot find out that they do not have this semblance of normal life. This guy is just doing way too much. Now we have a shooting this morning- so he's attacking around once a day, and at all hours. This makes me think that this person does not hold a normal job or interact with many people.
Just my theory...

 

Crazy: Forget the "Israeli" part of it for a moment. There are so many things here which do not fit the "psycho killer" theory. Most problematic is that they can't catch him. Look at Oct 3rd: he kills THREE people within an hour--while driving through rush hour traffic in between shootings. That can't be the work of one person. I think there are only two possibilities: either it's a lone, crazed gunman, or it's the work of a state-sponsored organization. The "group of terrorists" theory is very hard to believe. So, then, between the two theories, I would say that the state-sponsored theory answers more questions. The lone nut would most likely have been caught by now.

 

They're not going to catch these guys.
And they know they're not going to get caught.
There's really nothing we can compare this to.

 

I don't have any theories, it could be any numberof things. But knight, why do you thing a lone nut would have be caught by now. Many serial killers have gone on for years, they are are at more risk at being caught than this one.

If you look at his methods, its very efficent, and very safe. he does nt come clse to his itms, which means he is not seen and leaves little evidence. As i understand, he fires one sot. He does not wait around to see if hs victim is dead. This probably means it can take some time before a fireing point is identified, if at all.

He seems to be skilled at what he is doing, so he probably leaves little evidence at his firing point, such as an emtpy case.

This guy is deffinatly well trained.Maybe he is ex-forces, who knows. But he police have a hard job.

 

Bish, The question is: what explanation is more likely. There are several reports, also, indicating more than one person, which would certainly lend more credence to the state-sponsored theory.

 

[ 22 October 2002, 11:29 AM: Message edited by: Knight Templar ]

 

Good points...
I would agree and disagree on the "lone gunmman" (great reference- anyone?) theory... There have been cases of serial killers that got away with their crimes for quite a while. In some cases, they never were caught- this applies to the Zodiac killer, who I think would be one of the closest comparisons here. He never was caught.
But Oct. 3 does present a problem. He shot what, five people in all on Oct. 3rd? That would be a "serial killer" record- Previously, I think it was Bundy who killed the most people in one day- three women in a sorority house. But 5 in one day? one would tend to think that the killer would have made a mistake there, unless it was more than one person.
One other problem though, Knight, with the multiple people idea- I think that because of the quick getaway, and because it seems like there must be a "lookout", that this probably is the work of more than one person. But I get the idea that they are working as a team. So looking at Oct. 3, I would get stuck- are we looking at one very efficient "team", or, going on your idea, would we be looking at more than one team? I would think that that level of complexity would be too much.
Can't say I buy into any state-sponsored group. For one, I haven't seen any evidence to suggest that. Also, motivation- if it was state sponsored, I would think we would have heard something about demands, or a manifesto, or at least rumors...
From what I have heard, it seems like the Sniper may have made a demand... for money???
Good, something else that makes sense here

As far as the conspiracy idea, it does cross my mind that domestic terrorism could be plausible here. I'm thinking something like McVeigh- some anti-government group. This could account for the wanna-be special forces style the killers seem to have (sniping, one shot, one kill, etc.). This could also account for Bish's training point. Personally, I don't think the sniper necessarily has had any formal military or police training. So far, all he has demonstrated is that he is a pretty good shot with a rifle (but with a scope, anyone can acomplish this with some practice). But "training" with some right-wing militia could account for the basic weapon proficiency and the relatively smart tactics being used.

But even in that case, I would think that by now, two weeks and 13 (14?) victims in, that we would have heard something.

Unfortunately, that is true. This one really has no clear precedent.

 

Yeah, this sometimes points towards some kind of team. Weird thing is, I can't imagine more than one random psycho just happening upon eachother and agreeing to risk thier asses together. That's one thing that to me points towards some "organized" group of some sort, you know? If it really is more than one person, it would be like Dahmer finding a buddy to cook his kills for him - well, not that extreme, but that idea. Then again, there are plenty of weirdos out there, so who the hell knows? He sure did pick an odd place, too. So many military, investigative, and govt. orgs around that area. You'd think they'd get some nut right away. This is a damn interesting thread.

 

Doc, the serial killer "team" is rare, but not unheard of. Bianchi and Buono, Bittaker and Norris...
It really does make you wonder how these sickos "meet"... In the case Of Bittaker and Norris, they met in jail and then got togther after being released.
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serialkillers.htm
I may have posted this already, but this is one of the few well-done websites I have found on serial killers. Good for info.

Doc, you also bring up a really interesting one- this sniper is not attcking people out in the hills of Montana- this is happening in our nation's capital! You're right about the "official" presences there. Every government agency at least has an office there, along with every news outlet . I wonder- the sniper seems to care not at all about his victims. He seems not to have any sort of message or manifesto. It seems mainly just like the sniper seems concerned wiht not getting caught. The ONE thing the sniper DOES seem to be keeping very much in mind is the media reactions.
I wonder if we could be seeing the first of a new kind of serial criminal- one whose major concern is his "15 minutes" in the spotlight. In the past, most serial killers/criminals have shown concern for the media- but they have rarely given more concern to the media than their crimes or victims. The sniper- his actual crimes and victims seem like they may be secondary to him, being important only as in how the media responds.
Doc, you're right that this whole thing is interesting, and interesting to discuss.
We just can't forget that people are dying. I really feel sorry for the families and the victims.

 

You guys in the states will know more about thee then i do. But what about the varius milita groups you have over there. Could it be one of those that has some sort of grudge. I understand they have alot of training, and could have the military skills to carry out this sort of thing.

 

Bish, that is one of my thoughts/theroies as well. If there is any sort of group involved, that would be my guess. This idea seems to gain more credibility when we consider Doc's point, that this whole affair is going on in and around Washington D.C.

But even this theory has it's problems. If this was the work of a right-wing or anti-government militia, I would think we would have heard something, much like the rumors that pop up after a Middle-eastern terrorist attack.
And the demand for money, if this is actually the case... but in my view a demand for money dosen't fit with any of the explanations.

The Tarot card seems to be the real sticking point here (this is assuming that the general info we have heard on the Tarot card is accurate). This Tarot card, along with the "I am god" line... this seems to be rather typical of someone like the Zodiac Killer. This piece of evidence seems pretty clearly to suggest the nutcase explanation.



(Ooops... typed this then got to working and didn't wind up posting it for an hour. Now, after reading Ron's post...)
Ron, good point on the rifle as well. I hadn't made that (simple!) connection- if in fact all these bullets have in fact come from the same gun, that kind of rules out anything involving multiple "teams". I think it's really far fetched to imagine these "teams" running around trading off the same weapon.

Hopefully, you're right here. This has often been the case with serial killers, in one way or another. To be sure, I can't think of a single serial killer in the past who has worked this quickly. But it is very often carelessness that leads to the capture of one of these sickos.
Unfortunately, here's a problem I see with this. As I have mentioned, it seems that most serial killers are most concerned with their crimes and their victims, and only in a secondary manner show concern for the media and getting caught. Most serial killers in the past have been so caught up in their crimes, or just so far mentally gone, that they ahve not really worried about getting caught. Dahmer being the perfect example here- on two occasions (maybe not two, but I KNOW this happened at least once), he got careless and allowed a bloody would-be victim to escape screaming from his apartment. On both occasions, the police were summoned and showed up at Dahmer's place.
He just gave them some dopey story about "getting too rough" or something.
The cops bought it each time...
This whole time Dahmer was not only killing, but he actually had body parts in his fridge. (God, the human mind can go so wrong in some people... ). So Obviously, Dahmer (and many other serials) was not especially concerned with being caught.
Here's the problem- the DC Sniper DOES seem to be very concerned with being caught. This is my worry... in this case, the police may not wind up getting lucky. If this sniper does not make any mistakes, I wonder how he will be caught. Like I mentioned on the Tarot card issue, the cops apparently have very little evidence. Sure, there is probably more than we know about, but what could they have that could actually lead them to the sniper?

[ 22 October 2002, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: CrazyD ]

 

all i have to say to a militant group is the fact it is the same rifle used...that is how they are linking things...If it was a bunch of guys spread out sniping people...the bullets would not match one gun.
This is either one guy driving and shooting.
OR
One guy shooting and one guy driving.

Did you ever think how hard it would be for investigators if you went to a neighborhood that you have no association with...mapped an escape route...and found the best area to fire and not be observed. Especially when the vehicle is extremely common.
Before anyone knew what was going on...the shooter is gone...and now the only evidence the police have is a bullet and maybe a casing. But nothing links at all to anybody. No wonder this guy gets away.
Although now that he is getting more brazon and contacting police...upping the anty if you will...he'll get caught. He is working too fast not to make a mistake. The faster and more things he does to facilitate his crimes...the more likely it is for him to slip.
The sad thing is...how many more people die before he slips. Although maybe people will stop looking at the vixtim and start looking around for odd things and maybe someone will get a plate or better descriptions...the thing that i always hope for is a police chase...for someone to get a good description and the police catch up to him...now that would be interesting! That would sure beat the OJ chase.
Watching all this media coverage...it reminds me of watching a live version of those discovery channel investigative shows.