Gun comments

@Za : Not the Mormons, they are peacefull people ! I was thinking about urban proletarian lacking a sprititual and strong handed guide to organize them into a rather well regulated militia, with political Commissars...like your avatar


@ Erich : my point was just it's not true gun control has no impact on the widespread of guns in criminal hands.

If Chrome was right about this, then why there are much fewer armed criminals and gun crimes in England or France than in USA ? There would be a daily gun slaughter of unarmed citizen if this theory made any sense.

I'd like to find stats about the legal/illegal origin of guns used in crimes. I'd bet most of them were legaly sold in the first time.

But I've changed my mind on 1 point and I agree with Chrome on this : tue accidental gun casualties (the Don't worry, it's unloaded...BANG) are low, lower than I thought.

Anyway, USA is a democracy, so people get what they intend. They want guns, then there shall be guns, if they change their minds, law will change

 

several things. I was trying a bit though lamely to brighten up the thread with a little nonsensical humor.

you would have to come to the states to see first hand the firing ranges/gun clubs. I am a member of a very large scale one here in South Oregon. As it is not totally governmented in control then we can still bear arms though this has been fought for the last upteen years by silly political leaders in power, and that is the primary point, leave the government out of it. Europe is another story and yes bragging rights that neighbors are not shooting neighbors but look how the arms of the country are governed by your countries body both entirely, and under police and military. Foresters out hunting only and permits to be carried for proof that you are whom you say you are ......

Who knows if America will steem that far ? I for one would not be in agreeance with that socially.
I do know that our country is warped by many means .

 

Whats bra size have to do with anything?

Notice.......you are noticing,right?.......the proper finger placement on the trigger guard.

 

she is out of cink, wha not wearing protective lenses.........shame on her. Tell the guy to keep his tongue back in his mouth

 

I was watching a vid of a military exercise I was on and found myself grinning when I noticed a line of troops all with proper finger placement even in a scrap.

I guess my problem is that in my experience most members of the general public are not (in my view) clever enough to safely handle a firearm.

 

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16667971/

While there, click on the "Father arrested" link also.
"Just" to be on MySpace.An example of American culture nowadays.

 

I have been curious as to what web site you are getting all these pictures from ? I have been shut in the last three days due to an ice storm and need more "warmth".

 

Never mind, I found my own site. This girl won the iron cross. I wonder what kind of gun she has ?

http://www.alex-in-wonderland.com/GirlsWithGuns/Pictures/R/Text/ReturnToCastleWolfenstein.html

 

If she did her zip up she'd have a Ritterkruez.
Where do I collect my Panzerfaust?

 

On panzerfausts: If you don't know where to buy one or don't know how to make one; I'm not going to tell you as the Feds would likely end up on my doorstep. And, no you can't have mine!

 

He's a wimp ! I am not scared of no feds

Here is all the info you need. Blow the hell out of a Rolls Royce for me.

http://www.rotteneggs.com/r3/show/se/54094.html

 

"If Chrome was right about this, then why there are much fewer armed criminals and gun crimes in England or France than in USA ? There would be a daily gun slaughter of unarmed citizen if this theory made any sense."


Less gangs in UK & France.


http://www.galleryofguns.com/shootingtimes/articles/displayarticles.asp?id=1944

the number of guns and violent crimes has risen in France, Germany, Britain and elsewhere. The trend defies laws that have grown more restrictive: The blood bath in Germany occurred on the same day that the national Parliament passed stern anti-gun legislation.


Americans point to Switzerland, where almost every adult male is legally required to possess a gun. One of the few nations with a higher per capita rate of gun ownership than the United States, Switzerland has virtually no gun crime. Therefore, argue the pro-gunners, America doesn't need gun control.

 

This is all wrong.

- Gun law in France have not grown more restrictive (in fact it has almost not be modified at all for the pas few decades). So it's just plain wrong to talk about a more restrictive law.

- Now Switzerland : automatic and semi automatic weapons and handguns are prohibited (I would call these "war weapons" - only military personel is allowed to possess his ordinance weapon). You can only buy sporting or hunting one shot weapon without any authorization.

For all other weapons (neither war weapon or pure hunting/sport weapon), you have to obtain a special licence, after it has been checked you are not dangerous and you have no criminal record. The licence must be renewed each 6 months ! AND THIS IS ONLY FOR POSSESSION !!

To be allowed to CARRY a gun (not only possess one at home) you have to obtain another licence (except for hunting or sporting weapons which are carried unloaded) which is delivered under 2 conditions : you have to demonstrate you NEED a gun to protect yourself, you have to pass an exam about both gun legislation and gun safety use. This licence in only valid for 5 years.

So there is no serious comparison between the law in Switzerland and in USA. On a side note, it's pretty close to the French regulation.

Really, you'd better check by yourself before spreading Charlton Heston's liars and propaganda !

Anyway, thank you for proving my point : a more restrictive gun regulation in Switzerland than in USA explains the much lower gun crime rate.

 

And now, just to stop the bullshit and propaganda, some stats (from a survey from the Public Health Agency of Canada) :

Numers are :
- % of homes/families with guns

- numbers of gun homicides per million of pop

USA : 41% 62,4
France : 22,6% 5,5
Swiss : 27,7% 4,6

There goes the argument about Switzerland, I think you've been misleaded by what pro guns said.

Of course, I do believe that "cultural" differences can also have an important role in the process.

 

That is not gun ownership. These guns are Swiss State property, army rifles (plus the rest of military equipment, uniforms, etc.) provided by the State to each male citizen that did his National Service and at the end of it entered the Army Reserve. The guns are kept under carefully regulated safety conditiuons, and are brought out in case of periodical duly mandated army exercises or in a national emergency "Russians Are Coming" style, à la Minutemen. When the citizen reservist reaches the end of his reserve status, by age limit or other cause, he has to return to his army unit his equipment and arms he held of the State.

This is not cowboy country. Being army reserve troops, these people are by definition a 'well regulated Militia ... necessary to the security of a free State'.

 

Exactly : Military personel have their ordinance weapon, apart from this, semi auto and auto guns are prohibited, and when compared to the inhabitants, there are as many guns and guncrimes in France thant in Switzerland (see the stats I posted above).

And BTW ZA, your message box if full, you should empty your magazine more often

another interesting stat :

"Reports of stolen guns are included in the NCIC files when citizens report a theft to law
enforcement agencies that submita report to the FBI. All entries must include make, caliber, and serial number.
Initiated in 1967, the NCIC stolen gun file retains all entries indefinitely unless a recovery is reported.

From 1985 to 1994, the FBI received an annual average of over 274,000 reports of stolen guns."

U.S. Department of Justice
Office of Justice Programs
July 1995, NCJ-148201
Firearms, crime, and criminal justice

Looks like the well regulated militia is not even able to keep its guns away from criminal hands

 

And yet, with increased stricter gun control in France & England, higher gun crimes rates are the result. Disproving the "strict gun laws equate to less gun crime" theory.

& France & Switzerland have no large drug trade to fuel the gang activity that the US does. If the druglords had a good market in Switzerland, with a huge border with a large drug producing country like the US does, it too would have the same prob the US does with gun crime.


"Anyway, thank you for proving my point : a more restrictive gun regulation in Switzerland than in USA explains the much lower gun crime rate."


I didn't, I disproved it.


Friday's massacre at a school in Germany was the latest in a series of bloody gun crimes around the continent during the last year. The two worst examples were the slaughter of eight city council members in a Paris suburb last month and the killing of 14 regional legislators in Switzerland in September.


Britain, of course, has some of the toughest firearm laws in the world. The Labor government outlawed handguns in 1997 in response to a rampage by a gunman who mowed down 16 schoolchildren, ages 5 and 6, and their teacher in the Scottish town of Dunblane.

Then, as now, Britons blamed violent U.S. films and television shows for promoting violence and gun use. After the law passed, Britons surrendered about 160,000 handguns to police.

Nonetheless, the statistics are not good. Between April and November 2001, the number of homicides in London committed with a firearm rose almost 90% over the same period a year earlier. Armed street robberies rose 53%.

 

Gun controllers aren't bothered by this confiscation of property. They claim firearm "accessibility" is the root of all evil. Yet, a number of studies, such as the comparative work of David Kopel and World Health Organization statistics, show that gun-control measures and the level of gun ownership are not determining factors in national homicide or suicide rates (see Daniel D. Polsby, Firearms and Crime, Independent Institute, 1997).

Switzerland, Norway and Vermont are examples of peaceful societies in which low firearm homicide rates coexist with very unrestrictive firearm policies and high levels of gun ownership. Or just think of Canada 30 years ago.

The vast majority of criminological and epidemiological studies suggest that gun control is not an effective means of preventing violent crime: Wright/Rossi/Daly (1983), Kleck (1991), Centerwall (1991), Lott (1998), etc.. On the contrary, gun control prevents self-defence by honest citizens more than it deters criminals or mass murderers.

 

http://www.gunownersofvermont.org/swiss_army.html

Members of the Swiss army keep their weapons - fully automatic assault rifles or pistols - and a small emergency supply of ammunition at home. According to the Swiss Constituition, upon completion of all required military service, the gun becomes the property of the individual soldier. Assault rifles are then transformed into semi-automatic weapons. Therefore, military-issue weapons, often generations old, are kept in Swiss households.


"The guns are kept under carefully regulated safety conditiuons, and are brought out in case of periodical duly mandated army exercises or in a national emergency "Russians Are Coming" style, à la Minutemen."

Bullshit.

 

Let's keep it in perspective here. Britain banned AK47s, automatic shotguns and other automatic weapons after the Hungerford massacre in 1985. The result is that there have been very few occasions since when either have been used.
For a long time people were having deactivated and replica firearms restored to full working order, until the law cracked down on that too.
Gun crime in Britain tends to belong to very specific areas-Nottingham, London, Glasgow, Birmingham and Northern Ireland, and admittedly a few other cities, and is nearly always drug related. Latest thing is a move to have airguns banned too, although a few years ago the law was changed to make any airgun over a certain muzzle velocity classed as a firearm. Gone are my teenage days when ten of us could wander woods and fields with airguns in broad daylight, looking like Kelly's Heroes.
And it hasn't triggered Armageddon either.