Do you think the United States should have let McGarther and Patton move on to invade Russia? What would have been the outcome and how would the war have been effected?
Thats difficult to answer because almost any answer could offend someone, but I will try. If Patton had been allowed to attack the Russians, we undoubtedly would have won because---the many combat experianced German units, and probably units from Finland, Hungary, Romania, Spain etc, would have also been used. Russia was pretty colse to the breaking point in 1945, and would not have been able to withstand this from all these nations together, and it is very probable that England would have joined us, but I doube the French would have. Had this happened, certainly we would not have had a 40 or so year cold war to deal with. This attack would have been the start of the next war and not the finishing of WW2. The Japanese would probably have taken another chance and attacked Russia again. The Japanese still had appx 4 million combat troops they could have used. I do not think for a second that Russia would have lasted very long under all this pressure. MacArthur would most likely been continuing the fight with the Japanese, I doube the Japanese would have had anykind of peace treaty with the USA, nor do I think the USA would have had one with the Japanese. Patton would have been the wisest choice as Field Commander, and Ike still in his position or George C. Marshall.
NO!!! Why? Red Army: 4 Million men 40,000+ tanks American Army: 1 Million+ men 20,000 tanks (maybe) Maybe if all thos Waffen-SS men Patton wanted to re-arm led the spearheads... Stll, would you crew a Sherman against a T34, a JS1 or 2... The best thing America would have had going for it in a USA vs USSR scenario was thousands of heavy bombers ready to smash up Soviet logistics the way we did to the Germans... That and "The Bomb"... ------------------ Novus Ordo Seclorum
1. The Soviets were our allies and no reason existed for invading. 2. There is absolutely no way we would have won. Judging by the Soviet's past tactics, they have no problem in attacking regardless of losses. The U.S. does have a problem with that. The Brits had already shot their bolt as had the Germans. The French would never get involved as would the Japanese. Nope, it would have been the U.S. alone. ------------------ "They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Thats true and I agree with you PzJgr but, I was answering the question as a What IF? type question. Meaning, had we done so, it might have prevented the cold war and the division of half of Europe, the enslavement (I use the term loosely) and Europe could have rebuilt much faster than it did. Also, we most likely would not have had to live under the constant threat of Nuclear war with the Soviet union, and they most likely would not have put kruschev in power, maybe another Gorbechev? No, I have to disagree on the fear of attacking the Russians because of numbers difference. True we were outnumbered in many areas but, we would have used the troops from other nations as our added numbers. Remember-Germany still had several million men under arms at the end of the war. Then you could look at all the POWs the US and England had their hands on. Then you could factor in the Japanese who still had at least 4 million soldiers in the field. With the Germans fighting experiance and talents of many of their top soldiers, I really do believe we would have whipped the bear, not that I would have wanted this to actually have happened. Here are some figures, and they are not exact but.. Germany still had about 7 million men under arms, the USA had over 15 million, England appx 4 million, the Romanians and Hungarians possibly 2-3 million, the Japanese appx 4 million, the Finns possibly 200,000. This adds up to appx 32 million plus++ against the Russians 4 million +++ Now I know not all of these forces would be available for duty in Europe so we could take away say 40% and still have appx 20 million against the Russians. Look at the talent we would have if this crazy thing had actually happened. Luftwaffe: Generalleutnant Adolf Ferdinand Galland Major Ernst Dullberg Major Ludwig Franzisket Leutnant Fritz Gromotka Oberleutnant Friedrich Korner Oberleutnant Karl-Heinz Bendert Hauptmann Ernst Borngen Major Diethelm Von Eichel-Streiber Hauptmann Gunther Hannak Hauptmann Hans-Joachim Heinecke Hauptmann Erich Hohagen Hauptmann Herbert Kutschka Hauptmann Walter Matoni Oberleutnant Ernst-Wilhelm Reinert Leutnant Hans Richter Unteroffizier Horst Rippert Oberst Gustav Rodel Major Werner Schroer Major Rudolf Sinner Oberleutnant Franz Stiegler Hauptmann Ferdinand Vogl Oberleutnant Max Winkler Leutnant Franz Woidich between all these pilots, which are just from one fighter wing they accounted for appx 2,023 enemy planes destroyed in airial combat. All of these pilots survived the war and several are still living today. These are pilots just from one Jagdgeschwader. Kriegsmarine Erich Topp Reinhard Hardegen Jurgen Oesten Rolf Thomsen Hans-Gunther Lange Paul Brasack just to name a few U-boat aces who are also still alive. This isnt counting the numerous Tank, Anti-tank, and Infantry aces. There were many soldiers such as Remy Schrijnen who being an AT Gunner in the Waffen SS, destroyed appx 17 Russian tanks and killed over 100 Russian Infantry, while severly wounded several times, alone, behind the Russian lines. Then you have Tank aces like Ernst Barkmann and Michael Wittmann, who accounted many kills between the two, and then you have the ace of aces, Rudel, who destroyed I cant remember how many russian tanks which are in the hundreds, while flying a Stuka. I didnt meant to put all this to be a jerk, merely to point out that had this insane thing happened to begin with, the Russians would have definately been defeated, just when, I dont know. At what cost? who knows? certainly the cost would have been too high. Hope you are not offended..
My mistake. The question did not sound like a what if. Nevertheless, going on that, I think that would have been a interesting endeavor. The Germans tactical experience with the Americans industrial strength, it would not have been long to see ME262s and V-2s flying over the USSR. ------------------ "They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."
Who knows? I am pretty sure that the Allies would have chosen an honorable man like Erich Von Manstein Von Lewinsky or someone like him as a new leader of Germany. Germany would be rebuilt at a faster pace and no telling what else could be dreamed up. This is strictly answered as a What If? Dear Pzjgr: No mistake on your part but on mine. I couldnt answer it as anything but a what if.
