I don't know if anyone else saw it but Channel 4 showed a fascinating 2-hour documentary about Jutland last night; with excellent computer-generated graphics and views of the British battlecruiser wrecks as they are now. It's not often I raise a topic other than WW2, but Jutland has always fascinated me. The sheer 'weight' - literally - of the forces involved ! This is one battle that I would love to have a 'bird's eye view' of ; to see and hear those incredible guns in action.
Martin i taped it last night and am looking forward to seeing it. Having just started a module at uni entitled 'Dreadnought to Enterprise' so this fits right in.
'Fraid not, Carl - it was Channel 4, an independent, commercial channel. However, they occasionally release videos of some historical documentaries. It was a good programme - it's rekindled my old interest in this battle.
Bollocks missed it That's the last time I'll take the wife out for a meal just because its her birthday
This is one of my favourite battles to research too. Maybe because it could have been very, very decisive, but thanks to many factors it wasn't. I like Jutland for the Trafalgar it never was...
Martin finally got to watch it. It was very good. Nice to see where the wrecks actually lie. But it didn't really add much to whay the ships went down. Really it just confirmed what most historians have thought that the main problem was gunnery and the storage of cordite charges on the british battlecruisers that caused their loss.
Bollocks missed it That's the last time I'll take the wife out for a meal just because its her birthday [/QB][/QUOTE] CRAWLER!!!!! Regards, Gordon
Did they say much about HMS LION's involvement in the battle? Jees Beatty had balls, him in his battlecrusiers against a line of 1st rate captial ships. [ 19. February 2004, 07:57 AM: Message edited by: BratwurstDimSum ]
Even braver was Major Francis John William Harvey of the Royal Marines, who won the VC ( posthumously ) for saving the ship.... Beatty was a very courageous man; but a very large question mark hangs over his handling of his vessels ; he did not seem to understand warfare at ten-miles-plus ranges. His 'engage the enemy more closely' ethos was outdated. He's actually one of my 'heroes'( ) , but, as usual, a flawed hero.....
I watched "Sink the Bismarck!" yesternight and I was thinking of how a modern film about the battle of Jutland would look like. When I watched "Master & Commander" I thought the same about Trafalgar. I'd certainly would love to watch those two of the greatest battles in naval warfare.
I just bought ( at less than £5 ! ) a reprint of Fawcett & Hooper's classic book 'The Fighting At Jutland ' - I wasn't even aware that it had been reprinted..... I have had an original copy for years, it was published privately in 1921 and is too rare for me to read ( that's the book-collector for you ). The subject was considered too 'politically sensitive' to achieve general publication back then. It's a amazing experience to read because it consists of first-hand accounts by 60 Royal Navy survivors of the Battle. We take that for granted now, but 85 years ago it was a highly unusual way to record history. The events were fresh in the interviewee's minds, and reading what it felt like to have HMS Queen Mary blow up underneath you is - to use an overworked 21st Century word - awesome .
Thanks Gordon - I've bought from them before, but hadn't checked their stock out for some time. I see they have yet another Jutland title avialable on special offer right now.....
I'm in the process of aquiring their reprints of official RN histories from WW2, Martin; I've already got the WW1 series. Can't seem to find any on the Merchant Marine though. [ 17. June 2005, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]
I've just been reading an absolutely superb book about the battle - 'Jutland 1916 : Death In The Grey Wastes' by Nigel Steel & Peter Hart ( Cassell, 2003 ). It attempts to re-present Jutland for the 'general reader' and uses much material from the IWM's oral and written archives. The book makes compulsive reading and achieves the near-impossible ; it makes sense of the battle's various phases. The first-hand accounts are memorable indeed and give a real flavour of what it was like to be there. Highly recommended - and available from book warehouses no for £8.99 which makes it one of the year's real bargains !
Another barnacle-encrusted old thread emerges from the depths...... ...I thought it worth mentioning that one of the truly great history books of WW1 has just been reprinted : Arthur J Marder's 'From The Dreadnought To Scapa Flow'. Originally published in 5 volumes over several years in the 1960s by Oxford University Press, it has been legendarily scarce for many years. All five books have just been reprinted in paperback by Naval Institute Press in the US and Seaforth Press in the UK at very reasonable cost. All feature intoructions by Canadian naval historian Barry Gough . I'd never had a chance to read them before and they are indeed quite supernb to read - Marder, an American based in Hawaii, had studied the Royal Navy in WW1 for many years and had corresponded with many key Naval personalities over the years, some of whom had shared information which had been embaroe'd by the Admiralty ( they were enraged at the details he revealed of the Goeben affair, whci weren't to be made public for 100 years ! ). And of course, Volume Three concerning Jutland, is the most celebrated of all. Utterly compelling reading. If you are in any way interested in the Naval side of WW1, you really do need to read these.......get them before they go out-of-print again.......
