If The Axis Had Won the War

What would the world be like today? This is such a broad question but I think that everyone wonders about it. Lets say that D-Day failed and the Germans kept up their heavy offensive on the Eastern Front.

 

I don't think there were enough Germans in Germany to rule the whole planet. So Europe and Asia would be axis ruled and North and South America would stay the same. I don't think there were even enough Germans to rule Europe for that matter. They would have to have some cooperation from the natives to do this.

 

If D-Day failed, the Germans would have still lost the war by mid-45. The Soviet 1944 Summer Offensive alone nearly destroyed the German army in the East. The Western Allies would likely have tried another landing within months somewhere in Europe. Aside from that, the Germans were still engaged in Italy already. By this point in the war there was no German "heavy offensive" anywhere. The best they could do was conduct local counterattacks hoping for a bit of breathing space.
No, if the Germans were to win WW 2 they needed to stop after France and concentrate on getting a peace or victory over Britain. Involving the Soviets and then the US doomed them.

 

If the Germans had won the war I wouldn't be here writing to you as both my parents would have taken a trip up Auschwitz Chimney :flag_jolly: Simple as that.

Besides, what "heavy offensive on the Eastern Front." are you talking about? I suggest you read a history book or two. At the same time as Op. Overlord was unfolding the Soviets were launching their northen Summer '44 offensive, better known in the West as 'Destruction of Army Group Centre'. Sounds ominous, doesn't it?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration

 

I think we should ignore the flaws in the 'how Germany won' and stick with the actual question, 'what would the world be like if they HAD won?'

Well, Churchill, De Gaull, Monty and so on wouldn't be national heroes any more. How about the sciences? With science in Europe being dogged by political considerations what would we have learned? Who would have replaced Hitler?

 

if the Axis would of won, then maybe Ameriac would be different today.

no korean war or cold war.

 

A serious arms race would have begun with Germany throwing V2 rockets at the US and the Americans possibly using the A-bomb on Germany

 

I remember having read a fiction book about that called "Kalifornia"?
1)We would possibly be writing our posts in German and have it censored by a "prüffungstelle" .
2) some of us would probably be deported, killed etc..
3) The survivors would be educated with Nsdap ideology and wouldn't need to discuss as we would all be brainwashed and have the same opinion.
4)There would of course be no middle East conflict about Israel that would not even exist .
5) "1984" but worse... scary thoughts, aren't they?

 

Ok, sticking with the original premise:

First we must determine exactly how the Germans managed to achieve victory and what they gained in doing so. It is clear that if Germany gets involved in the Soviet Union with Britain not defeated they lose. Getting the US involved as well only seals the certainty of this occuring.
Therefore, the most likely scenario for a German victory is that with the fall of France the Germans manage to bring England to the negotiating table. I would postulate this is done by focusing on a defeat of Britain in North Africa and by ramping up both the bomber campaign and U-boat war.
Given these conditions say by 1943 the war is ended with Britain negotiating a peace with Germany. Germany, having little interest in Africa abandons it to Italy and local governments friendly to Germany. This leaves the Germans with essentially Europe except Britain.

Post war, the Germans prepare for a go at the Soviets. They also begin to consolidate their position in occupied countries. Hitler proceeds with the Holocaust against all of occupied Europe. Much of the German war economy is scaled back to keep the civilian population complacent. This means many of the more far fetched and long term military research programs are cut back severely or eliminated. Rocket research is scaled back as is jet technology. Nuclear research is nearly forbidden as the Nazis view it as "jewish" and not in keeping with their political beliefs.
In armor a slightly improved model of the Pz IV is introduced (something like the VK 3001 or 3501) but nothing like the Pather or Tiger appears (there would be no reason for either to be built without facing the T 34 or KV 1).

Elsewhere, the US still crushes Japan and comes out of that war with the most powerful navy and air force on the planet. With no war in Europe, the US returns to a more isolated political stance once again. But, the US also finishes their nuclear weapons program in secret never having actually used a bomb. The Soviets also embark on a nuclear weapons program based on esponage of the US program. The US also continues to develop some missile technology and adopts jets from the British.
The isolated Germans (Nazi Europe would be xenophobic to a great degree) fail to see many of these developments until they are behind the curve in technology and then must play catch up.
By the late 40's or early 50's the Germans have a go at the Soviets only to find they too have nuclear weapons. This comes as an utter shock to the Germans who are decades away from their own bomb. The US provides the Soviets with material support. A stalemate ensues with both nations fighting a pointless blood bath. This time it ends with both exhausted and a negotiated peace.
In the long run....ie into the 60's it becomes a matter of which dictatorship fails first.

 

If I am not mistaken, it was the Americans and the Russians who had destroyed Germany's attemp to create a bomb. ( heavy water reactors )
I believe this was done after Britain launched a successfull raid on Germany's secret plant....

Now if America and Russia were not at war with Germany at this time, then why would Germany not have created a bomb?

Also, if the Soviets in your scenario have nuclear weapons and Germany does not, how is it that you come to a conclussion of a stalemate?? Especially considering the fact that the Soviets gave Germany and its allies a run for their money completely by themselves until early 43' and with no nuclear weapons??............

Please explain

 

Worth remembering that the German bomb wouldn't have worked anyhow, apparently it was massively flawed.

 

Exactly, we should first of all define what is meant by having won the war.

When? After the surrender of France and negotiations with Britain? After successfully invading the British Isles? After the fall of Egypt and conquest of Iraq and negotiations with Britain again? After the fall of Moscow assuming the USSR folded? With Britain conquered or not? Etc, etc, etc. All these are quite different premises and have very different implications. What does winning the war mean, conquest of the United States?

In any case, considering who really lost in the end and the magnitude of the historical defeat this discussion has as much logic as "what if Italy had won the war".

 

On the nuclear bomb issue:

The Germans in 1945 had not gotten an actual working reactor on line. They had the beginnings of a fast fission design using graphite moderation (the same as the original University of Chicago reactor used by Enrico Fermi) but had yet to actually operate it. Their work on a nuclear bomb was based on a flawed design and the use of fusion as the means of reaction.
As the official government position on the whole research effort was one ranging from indifference to outright hostility it is unlikely that much was going to be done to advance a German nuclear bomb rapidly.
As I pointed out, it is likely that the program would only become a serious effort when the Nazi leadership was faced with their enemies, potential or actual, using such a weapon openly in tests or on them in combat.

 

I guess the German offensive on the Russian Front was what I meant be 'Heavy Offensive'. Sorry! >.<

 

Tox,

I am afraid the last offensive that the Germans launched on the Eastern Front was on July 4th through the 20th 1943 ( Operation Zitadelle ). After this the Germans were on the retreat all the way to Berlin, with a few counter attacks here and there. But no other major offensive was ever launched, simply due to the fact that Germany no longer had anything left.

 

I see the flaw in my logic. I should have not even said anything about D-Day in my original post because things started to go bad for Germany long before D-Day. Forget everything I ever said about Germany attacking Russia and D-Day!

 

Dont worry about it!!! I have already forgotten all about it.

 

Tox, no need to pull the ejection seat lever. You just have to define victory conditions. Say winning against Britain before invading the USSR, or after the French defeat. That would be winning the war.

 

How about if when you post, define the victory conditions and what would have needed to happen in order for Germany to win the war.

 

Me? I thought you were the one who started the thread so you should be the one setting up definitions