A few What Ifs.

Hello, I am a new member.

I have a few What Ifs:

1. What if Germany had been defeated by the allies but there had been no war crimes? Would the Nazi regime have survived?

2. What if Nazi Germany had not expanded its borders beyond its 1938 size?
ie if they had not invaded Poland, France, Belgium etc etc? Would war still have broken out? Would the Nazis have outlasted the communist regime in the USSR? How would the Cold war have been different? Would the cold war have taken place between Germany and Russia instead of US v USSR?

What does anyone think?

 

1 - No. As for the war crimes, I think starting a war was one of the main charges at Nuremburg.

2 - It had to go to war. If it didnt it would have soon collapsed in on itself due to its horrific economic policy. It was a big paper Tiger. So no war and the German economy would have had yet another freefall and the Nazi's would have been pushed aside.

 

1. Even if the Nazis hadn't perpetrated the Holocaust they would still have been accused of war crimes; the Germans were accused of many things during World War I that never occurred. Claims that the enemy is utterly barbaric and depraved are so commonplace that you find them in pretty much every war. The Nazi regime would not have survived because their regime was entirely based upon a strong Germany restoring its "rightful" boundaries. A political party like the Nazis was far too dangerous to leave in power. And don't forget how unbelievably devastating the war was for Germany. Few nations have ever been so comprehensively and totally defeated. Most German cities were badly to completely destroyed. Would you want anything to do with a party that brought you such complete and utter ruin?


2. As Vince Noir pointed out Nazi Germany had no choice but to expand beyond its 1938 boundaries. To leave Danzig and the Polish corridor in Polish hands would have been far too galling to Germans brought up on Nazi propaganda that those territories were German to the core. The Nazi economy was built upon the idea of building up the military and expanding. Without taking over and digesting other countries' economies the German economy would have collapsed.

As for a Cold War, so long as the Nazis were in power there was ultimately going to have been war with the Bolsheviks in Russia, and that war would not have been cold but exceedingly hot. The only alternative Cold War that makes much historical sense would have been one between a relatively victorious Nazi Germany and the US.

 

Was Soviet Russia not also a "Paper Tiger"? That Regime managed to last 70 years or so.

 

1. I take your point about them being accused of war crimes even if they had not perpetrated the holocaust, however think what resources were wasted on the holocaust that they could have arguably put to better use fighting the allies. I wonder what difference that would have made to the German war effort? As for the Nazi party being too dangerous to leave in power, I do agree with you, but wasn't Stalin's Russia just the other side of the same coin? The only difference being that Stalin was committed to the spread of Communism rather than Russia getting bigger, although in practice the 2 things were the same really.

2. I don't think the economy would have collapsed, Germany could have carried on making things, like she always has done, and exported them. They could have sold arms the world over. There was also a large rebuilding plan to go ahead as well, all of these types of things would have maintained employment.

You may be right about the USA v Nazi Germany in a cold war, but it is interesting to consider other options. If Hitler had not invaded Russia then there may have been a cold war with Russia and Nazi Germany. Indeed there may have been a Cold War between the British Empire and Nazi Germany if a peace had been reached. Instead of Britain giving her Empire up and passing her "Policeman of the World" status on to the USA.

 

How would Germany make stuff without the money to buy raw materials?

German industrial management was terrible and probably one of the biggest factors that led to their defeat during the war. Add to this their inability to standardise or simplfy designs and the problem is compounded.


Soviet Russian had a good strong economy, basing its military and civilian automotive designs on the same principles. Russian did not need to import vital materials and was able to supply its oil needs.

I wouldnt call an industry that managed to produce hundreds of thousands of vehicles a 'paper tiger' but I think you are confusing economic policy with industrial capacity.

Germany needed war to prop up its economy and divert public attention from its mismanagement.

 

I think that is an oversimplification.
Germany have always been leaders of automotive and aviation design. They were also able to build a pretty good battleship or submarine. Many of those items were built before the war, and could have been sold elsewhere.