makes of ww2 british planes that not even 1 remains

duxford is a great place to go as long as you dont take the missus cause all you get is cmon , cmon , hurry up !!!!!!!! you really need to go on your own though or with someone like minded who isnt in a rush and can slowly stroll through the hangars and really soak it all in . then its a great day and a long one !!!!!!!
i must go soon myself . its been to long..........

 

yea hoppy , tell ya when i first saw it i straight away knew it was a HE-111 but did notice slight differences about it which i hadnt noticed before ....engines etc.....
still a 111 though !!!!!

 

Thanks for posting the picture of the TSR-2 link Martin !! I did not realize how big the aircraft was until I noticed the person standing under the left wing. Boy, the UK beancounters really messed up when they cancelled building the aircraft. It was really nice I think. I am glad the Bucceneer is inside also. It is anouther great from the UK.

 

I just thought of two other American aircraft that the British and South African Air Force used and I don't think any survived but I hope I am wrong. The Martin Maryland and the Martin Baltimore. They are overlooked in history for some reason but served well in the Mederterine theater. ( I can't spell but I guess you can get the idea !! )

 

With respect TA, it was pressure from YOUR government on our weak leaders of the day, that cancelled TSR-2. The US Government said that they would wipe off vast sums of the WWII Lend-Lease agreement, if our government cancelled TSR-2 and bought the F-111. They even insisted that the Jigs in the factory were destroyed......
Sorry, but thats the truth, even though it is still 'not talked about'.
Politics my friend.....

 

Hi,
The whole idea of lend-lease was that we got US aid in return for non-strategic bases we no longer needed. Considering no actual cash changed hands, that's the lamest excuse I've heard in a long time!

Regards,
Gordon

 

With apologies for going way off WWII, more can be read about TSR-2 at : -

http://www.spyflight.co.uk/TSR2.htm

The subject still causes heated debate to this day. I'll just say two dreaded words : -

LABOUR GOVERNMENT !

 

Thanks again Martin for posting more information on the great TSR. I read a magizane article on the plane years ago but I don't recall the Mountbatten connection.

If I recall right did'nt the IRA blow him up some years ago ?

 

Ta,
August 1979, on his yacht off the Irish coast. I'd just visited his stately pile at Broadlands about a week before.
Regards,
Gordon

 

In reply to the Historian, I think you will find that Lend-lease was not a 'swap' at all.
The name suggests that it was, but even a small bit of research will show you that we were actually running a 'tab'. Obviously, cold, hard cash did not change hands, but non the less, we 'owed' the USA.
Having taken part in some reseach, about 4 years ago, for the BBC, i was able to overview some documents concerning TSR-2. It was there in black and white. The programme was also put onto VHS.
TSR-2 WAS cancelled due to pressure from the U.S.
These my friend are facts. What else has gone on that we DONT know about ?

 

Hoppy,
You did research for the BBC?!THAT explains a lot.......

Regards,
Gordon

[ 12. November 2003, 08:19 PM: Message edited by: The_Historian ]

 

Respect hatch, not all missuses are like that. Mine refused to leave Duxford when she saw her favourite 2 planes, the Av8b Harrier and the Tornado. Our living room has posters and models of both and people keep thinking they're mine!

 

Back to the NON political debate we're having...

One of the caretakers at Duxford at the time told me this great story about the TSR, the only reason why we have the one at duxford was because some guy working at the place where they were being stored ready for the breakers "nicked" it and hit it in a paddock somewhere. It was found after some years (and the whole "No Nukes" debate had blown over), taken to Duxford and stored.

Can this be true? Surely someone must have noticed they were missing a cruise missle carrying warplane?!!!

One other thing, Martin, I thought the TSR 2 was cancelled on Thatcher's orders? Again this is what the curator said at Duxford, presumably he knows better?

Oops!! Did I mention politics

 

The research was carried out FOR the BBC, through a third party company. As i mentioned, we were given access to certain documents, which had been de-classified. Unfortunately, the documents which i believe hold the most interesting facts, are still restricted.
The BBC, in their great wisdom, chose to 'edit' certain bits of the programme, which did no justice to the overall scheme. The part for which the research was done was on the strained relationship, post war, between Britain and the USA. TSR-2 being an example of Great Britain trying to 'smooth' things over.
In the end, it helped neither the US, or ourselves.
As this is not really a WW2 piece, if anyone wishes to see some of the work that was uncovered while reseaching TSR-2, please feel free to pm me.

[ 13. November 2003, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: Hoppy ]

 

What drugs are they on at Duxford ?

When TSR-2 was cancelled, Maggie Thatcher was a humble MP for Finchley and the Conservatives were in opposition....

 

Unfortunately, a comment to a visitor such as that, or being fed the wrong info can have dramatic results !!! you would have thought that the IWM would teach its employees a bit of history !!

 

hmmm.......

 

Back onto a WW2 subject, mentioned earlier, The Lend-Lease agreement between Great Britain and the USA was a lifeline to the people of Britain.
In return for, amongst other things, opening the 'British Imperial Preferance System' which was basically a closed market for trade to commonwealth countries, America would supply ships and munitions. Also, Franklin.D. Roosevelt insisted on Britain selling the US some of its overseas assets, as well as shipping its Gold reserve to America for 'safe keeping'.
He also insisted onhaving a 99 year lease on 6 strategic bases in England.
The final debt at the end of WW2 was $30 Billion Dollars. This was finally 'paid off' in the mid-1990's. The agreed cost to be paid was 2% per annum.
Without the Lend-Lease agreement, Britain would probably not have seen the end of 1943.

 

And the source for this was?......

 

Erm... Imperial War Museum, countless webites, books...HISTORICAL FACT....
It doesn't take much effort to do a little research yourself... You may even learn something