Rememberance Day

Some things to remember today:

: from http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu

All told, approx: We lost the entire population of (*edited*)England, The entire population of California in the US or 3 times the population of Australia during 6 years of war


Excerpt from

‘IN FLANDERS’ FIELDS’

Written by Doctor Major (later Lieutenant-Colonel) John McCrae 1st Field Artillery Brigade, 1915


They shall not grow old as those that are left grow old. Age will not weary them nor the years condemn. At the going down of the sun and in the morning, we shall remember them.

Lest we Forget


[ 13. November 2003, 05:25 AM: Message edited by: BratwurstDimSum ]

 

it's 7.40 am and dark and foggy........

hoping you guys will take some time today and leave the forums and go visit a vet(s), at veterans hospital or go to a memorial service(s)and pay your repsects for the freedoms you have........

I visit my dying vet friend for possibly the last time this afternoon........

Salute to our vets and to those that have shared their expereices with us......(Brian)Sapper for one........

~E

 

Today was originally called Armistice Day because the World War One armistice was on November 11, 1918. Sadly it was not the last armistice in Europe.

 

Lest we forget, indeed!

However, I see some very low ciphers regarding the casualties of the USSR, Japan and Germany... and the US casualties too high. Will have to check somethings later...

 

Definite salute to any and all veterans on this forum. It's because of veterans that I maintain and practice my freedom. Thank you, S!

 

Yeah I found the figures staggering as well, but given it was from a university + 5 other historical institutions, I kinda lent credence to it a little more than, say a private website from a "fan". By all means let us know if its wrong!!

 

Brat,
I don't see the figures adding up. I get them to 47.65m, and the UK population alone is 60m as of now.
Also, why no mention of the British & Commonwealth dead? Think the figure was 765,000?
Regards,
Gordon

 

OK,

My bad... I have a friend who doesn't know the difference between the UK and England and he quoted me 49,138,831 as of the 2001 Census for the UK...which of course is the population of ENGLAND not the UK. I have edited the original post.

Also sorry I didn't mention British and Commonwealth, forces as I am in England, that fact was not lost upon me, but then I would've been asked why not quote figures for French or Italian or Polish forces?

I had a great quote from Houston University and it was in spirit with what I wanted to say, so I used it. I'm not the bureau of statistics you know!

[ 13. November 2003, 05:26 AM: Message edited by: BratwurstDimSum ]

 

Brat,
Hey, I wasn't trying to pick you up before you even fell mate-honestly! EVERYONE'S input is appreciated here!
I went and did a spot of checking-just to put my money where my mouth was-and found the following:
According to the Guinness Book of World Records (www.guinnessworldrecords.com), total deaths in WW2(including battle and civilians)was 56.4m.
The country which lost more people in proportion to its population was Poland-6,028,000, or 17.2% out of the total. It didn't give the total unfortunately.The USSR lost 26.6m-no surprises there.
British population in 2002 was 59,207,000( www.statistics.gov.uk/)
Australia had 19,218,219 on 14/11/2003 (!)(www.abs.gov.au/Ausstats/).
Population of California is currently 34,501,130 (www.census.gov/).
As I said, not trying to be pedantic (too much like hard work!).
You don't mind if I go and lie down in a dark room now?
Regards,
Gordon.

 

BTW,
765,000 was the British & Commonwealth figure for the Great War. Fatalities in WW2 were 230,000.

 

According to my sources, Soviet losses are a little bit under 30 million.

Japanese and Chinese losses were very high and are the most difficult ones to figure out. But I won't be surprised if China lost more than 20 million people.

Poland is correct, 6 millions so far.

UK and Commonwaelth, 450.000. USA, aproximately 300.000. France 650.000, Italy 850.000 and Czechoslovakia some 600.000 as well, Yugoslavia 1 million, Germany, between 5 and 6 million. Jews are included with the figures of their respective countries.

 

Given that figures do vary, (e.g. assessment criteria - killed in action with or without figures of those who later died of consequential injury), below are a couple of sites with typical stats.

WWI
http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWdeaths.htm

WWII
http://www.angelfire.com/ct/ww2europe/stats.html

No.9

 

Herr General,
The printed version of the Guinness Book of Records used to give a breakdown of casualty figures by country-the website doesn't, unfortunately.
Regards,
Gordon

 

hye 9 thanks for the pg. those are really awesome stats. good information, thanks again. OTF

 

Thanks for the figures everyone!

But still, wars are not bloodier because of numbers. The bloodiest war to this day is WWI. Never since the ancient world - and perhaps the battle of Borodino - so many men were killed in so short periods of time. When in WWII more than 20.000 soldiers were killed in a 20 kiloemetres sector in less than 1 hours?

 

Different technologies Freddy. The Bomb killed 39'000 at Nagasaki and 66'000 at Hiroshima in moments, not counting consequential deaths.

No.9

 

Good data all round guys, the mind just is starting to boggle with all these figures!

No.9, Fredrich was referring to combatants only in his assessment I think.

The important thing folks is, did we have remember, in all our wild scurrying to get/check figures, to pause for 2minutes at 1100 on the 11th


Where I was, people were generally good about it, with traffic even stopping near the memorial in the town square to pay respects!

 

Brat,
Quite right. It was the same here generally.
Regards,
Gordon

 

I didn't mean the A-bomb. That's out of question. It's the most devastating weapon ever seen used against civilians.

I meant soldiers armed with only a rifle and a bayonet fighting heavy artillery, barbed wire, machine guns and snipers.

My grandfather was a batallion adjutant in West Yorkshire 10th batallion the first day at the Somme. The batallion had 710 casualties in 10 minutes, out of a force of 900. Who did that? Maybe six German soldiers with three machine guns!

 

I can see Friedrich's point. Something like 25,000 British soldiers were killed ( 60,000 casualties in total ) on the 'First Day Of The Somme' - mostly by the Maxim Machine Gun.

When I walked the Somme battlefields years ago, I just couldn't believe how compact an area it is.

Incredible.