after 50 odd years...are the ww2 losers not actually the "winners"?

Japan and Germany were the big losers of ww2, but ultimately 2 of the most wealthy and economically strong nations.

Because of the red danger, a lot was done to avoid communism taking ground in these beaten countries....with the known result.

It seems that losing a war nowadays often opens doors to financial aid, new governments and many other things that would otherwise stay closed.


in the 1950's Germany was doing a lot better already then for instance the UK or France, or Holland, or Belgium. This is also thanks to their inhabitants who know what hard wiorking is, but still.....they seem winners afterall or at least not worse off that some of the winners of ww2



------------------
*** We shall not retreat, nor shall we surrender. If we cannot stay here alive, we shall stay here dead***

 

Dear Mart: I agree with your post but, it wasnt the masses of Germans or Japanese who should be punished because of insane leaders and their policies. I know you arent blaming the masses either and know where you are coming from when you mention this but to others, it might look that way to them.

Good post! Take care--Carl.

 

i think that it is good that germany and japan got back on their feet with a vengence. When wars are lost...the enemy gets finacial aid..and support...because the world learned it's lesson from WW1...because we did nothing but put all the burden of WW1 on germany..the seeds were planted for the next war.
Maybe if we had given finacial aid, not reparation bills to germany...the government wouldn't have gone out of control...and maybe hitler wouldn't have risen to power.
As soon as the aggressor part of a nation is destroyed it is important...to not make the rest of the people suffer, for more aggressors could spawn out of them.

 

All you have to do is look at the two Germanys. The West was given the chance to rebuild with assistance from the Allies. The East was suppressed by the Soviets and after the fall of the wall, we saw how far behind it really was. So, I agree that by helping both Germany and Japan, we helped prevent another disgruntled vet to cause trouble.

------------------
"They wrote in the old days that it is sweet and fitting to die for one's country. But in modern war there is nothing sweet or fitting in your dying. You will die like a dog for no good reason."

 

sorry Chris,

but the masses in Japan and Germany were involved in the war by free will. At leat 80% of the german people supported Hitlers ideas and claims. It is naive(no offense, chris) to think that majority just went along to stay unpunished.
Only recently it was proven that the thesis that german people did not know about the holocaust was a lie. They knew damned well!! I can understand that they felt attracted towards Hltlers ideas, but as we have a saying in holland:

He who burns his bottom will have to sit on the blisters.....


[This message has been edited by mart (edited 16 March 2001).]

 

I don't think Germany was doing good after the war. They had lost everything. The Russians had taken part of Berlin and divided the country. It wasn't until 1989 that the Berlin Wall finally came down. I don't think they are doing better. I think they are back to normal. They have to live with the fact that they followed a mass-murderer into the darkness of war.

------------------
"Goddamn it, you'll never get the Purple Heart hiding in a foxhole! Follow me!"
- Captain Henry P. "Jim" Crowe (Guadalcanal, January 13, 1943)

 

The success of these nations is based on tha simple premise of the Treaty of Versallies. This treaty ended WWI and pushed Germany into an economic freefall that saw Germany pay millions to the winning countries and be neglected by the world. We kicked the dog while he was on the ground and left him there. Only he came back to bite us.

There was a concerted effort to avoid the same occurence after WWII. America helped rebuild the German and Japanese economies. Where old, ineffecient, and outdated manufactoring facilities were replaced by more modern and technological facilities. Germany and Japan had occupying forces and did not have to spend very much on defense. They were protected by the US and could turn its eye on their economies while the rest of the world fought against communist aggression. This is why Germany and Japan are so economically powerful today.

------------------
Carthage must be destroyed!

 

couldn't have said it any better! The masses of germany followed hitler because of the propaganda he spread as he was in power. We helped japan and germany after the war so that another maniac didn't get control of the masses of a country again.

 

I wish someone else would do something about iran and iraq!

 

Cant do anything about Iran and Iraq. World War 2 was fought over one simple facet... economics. Germany wanted to rebound from their economy and regain some of their territories (that was the purpose, Hitler turned it into something more sinister). Japan needed natural resources to power their economy.
Iran and Iraq are based on totally different principles. They are religious fundementalists who who truly believe in the hatred they share for each other and the US. We can fix economies..... but an entire nation of people who are willing to die for their cause cannot be stopped.

------------------
Carthage must be destroyed!

 

Certainly the Foremost axis powers are now economic juggernauts of sorts, but they could not have achieved that status without the help of America. The plans to revitalize these nations were certainly cheaper than it would have been to have to fight them in another conflict in which America was viewed as just another of their oppressors...

The result of the alliance with the USSR we call the Cold War was costly enough, though thankfully the thousands of nuclear weapons built to "fight" it were never employed...

Consider also that America itself was "promoted" to greater status by WW2.
The mass-production techniques which proved so effective were instrumental in the "era of plenty" which followed, although I must admit that having the very nations which would become economic competitors to the USA bombed into the previous century production-wise may have helped...

As for the European powers "demoted" to a sort of "second-class" status in the post-war world, I believe this is a manner of proof that they were foremost in an epoch which ended after WW2. This was a sifting out of the "supertribes" on the path to a single world-dominating power.
The identity of that power, whether political or otherwise, remains to be seen...


------------------
Novus Ordo Seclorum