Norman Hedgerows

I've wondered why Allied Intelligence and planners failed to really recognize the strategic importance of the norman hedgerows prior to the D-Day invasion. Any of you have any thoughts on this?

I'm new here so cut me some slack. :^)

 

The Bocage posed no Strategic importance.

The plan was to reach the Seine in 90 days and that was achieved on schedule.

 

Hello, Supra - thank you for joining in with the Forums!

Yes, the importance wasn't strategic but they were certainly important tactically.

I've read a discusion of this in one of the Normandy books ( no time to hunt it out just now ), the hedges could not be picked out by aerial recon for one thing, another theory I've seen is that in general people were not as well-travelled in the '40s as they are today, therefore such local knowledge was often lacking among the planning staff....

 

Welcome, welcome supraspinatus!

Lets be optimistic here guys, I would say the hedgerows might have been considered since it negated the use of heavy tanks in open country. Rommel's defending panzers would've made short work of the landing parties (air/naval support aside) if it had the bare, rolling steppe of the Russian countryside to fight in!

 

WELCOME supra, good to have another voice on the forum. i would think that even though the hedgerows worked against the Allies they worked also against the Axis due to concealment on both sides and other reasons. I agree with Brat too that if the hedgrows weren't there the Panzers would have annihalted the Allied army or at least gave them a heck of alot more trouble.

 

The battle of the bocage was difficult to say the least. The MG42 was particularly nasty against the advancing allies.

I read somewhere that after the invasion, Eisenhower visited some of the forward sights and his driver took a wrong turn and drove the Supreme Commander of the AEF through German lines. I'm sorry I forgot where I read this but I think it's fascinating. Can you imagine what some Wermacht soldier would have done if he had captured Eisenhower?

 

Just one point - the bocage favoured the defence much more than the offence and the Germans were certainly on the defensive in Normandy.....

 

As Fallschirmjäger friend Jack Mahrohl told me by phone, it was very useful to hide quad barrel 2cm's which for the most part were used as a ground deterent as the closely packed shrubbery/camouflage did not give them a particularily clear view of jabo's flight.....

~E

 

Oh come on!

Hitlers panzers weren't exactly doing such a wonderful job against the Russians on the bare rolling steppe. What makes you think they would have done any better against American tanks, the USS Texas and HMS Nelson?

and while we're at it, what panzers?
The US army was facing no panzers just the 352 infantry division.

[ 16. December 2003, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: Major Destruction ]

 

That's not entirely true. There were two ad hoc battalions equipped with a motley collection of ex-French tanks facing them. You can't underestimate the value of a WW I vintage FT-17!

 

Sorry to interrupt but I think this has been discussed in several places in this forum and all in all the Russian losses were approx 5:1 in every department planes, tanks, men...Just that the Russians had such a huge reserve makes the difference!

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On Bocage fighting. I read on the US troops that they mentioned that they had loadsa drills on landing and starting the invasion but nothing on the entering the inner land and fighting there. That definitely was a mistake by their side. And definitely the Bocage worked for the German defence.

I guess the allied thought that once stabilized the footstep it would be easy to get further. And it is true that the 90 days targets were reached and even better, but from the Caen area they did not get ahead for about 6-7 weeks!

 

I heard that the some of the hedgerows were so damn thick that tanks could not get through them. So really they were of some strategic importance when it comes to tanks, right?

 

Yes, the hedgerows ( being hundreds of years old ) were very thick with deep-rooted trees and bushes. In addition to which, many masked 'sunken lanes' - farm tracks which over the years had worn deep into the ground, with almost sheer sides.

 

And that is why we welded some "hedge clippers" on the front of a few tanks...

 

True, and it was a superb field modification - but going back to the original point, you obviously did it after you got there....?

 

From Tank Killers by Harry Yeide

" The Germans faced the same difficulties as the Americans in the bocage and could rarely employ more than a platoon or company of tanks at once!"

Just makes me wonder why would Germans send their tanks over there instead of fighting the Monty´s troops anyway.. (??)

 

Excellent cover,I'd say. They[German Pak's and assualt guns] are hidden. Both from ground attack and roving planes during the daylight.
If they stood toe to toe fighting Monty,would'nt the Allied air forces destroy them?
An easy target even for a panzerfaust, a slow moving Sherman coming out of a hedgerow into the open.
I thinks.

 

It makes perfect sense. Weren't they all Tigers?

 

While I think that there waas consideration given to the terrain, I doubt that the allies could really have an appreciation of the full impact the hedges would have. History is made by surviving your mistakes. If the mad corporal had been sensible and released the Panzers, the hedges may have been used to defend our troops in the same way the German troops did.

 

I think it was the same book " Tank Killers" where at least one sort of explanation is given.

"Once the invasion succeeds the Germans were expected to retreat behind the river Seine."

OK. But was this the only solution in the war games played before the actual invasion?!