Iraq

~The public sees the Iraq war as a failure and thinks the U.S. troop buildup there has not worked, according to an Associated Press-Ipsos poll suggesting the tough sell President Bush faces in asking Congress and voters for more time.


http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/us/AP-US-Iraq-AP-Poll.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

 

That does not surprise me since the goals have changed so many times that we really don't know what victory is.

 

We had the plan for going in but what happen after was a muddle now we must face facts and stop moaning and look at the whole picture, Changing the goal posts dose not help.

 

No, what is happening is, all the assholes that were allowed to speak only negatively i.e. through the press or at some speaking function, on talk radio and also on talk TV programs, that the war is lost is what is drummed into the heads of so many for so long that they are believing everything they hear. >:-((

I, being that I live in a "military" town, have met a few hundred people who all served in Iraq, and they all tell a much different story. Who am I supposed to believe: the lying assholes that call themselves Reporters? or: the people who were actually there? I chose to listen to what those who were actually there have to say.

Also, stupid mindless freaks like cindy cheehan and tim robbins etx, think THEY know it all and are the only ones right. Those morons would not know their asses from knot-holes in the fence!

You at least get biased news from places like Fox News as well as websites like: Eric Von Wade - 1440 KEYS Conservative Talk Radio Try looking and listening to what thye have to say for a change instead of listening to assholes like keith obermann, and you might start to get the picture of what is going on!!

 

Carl,

I dont doubt the US military ability in open battles and the results of those battles in Iraq.

But are the 3765 dead and over 25,000 wounded worth the price of what has so far been achieved in that country?

 

Hi Slon, I don't doubt the military's ability either ;-)) they have more than proven in countless angagements in the far and recent past, that they can do the job if; the politicians would let them.

I am not sure how to answer your question except with this: From what these veterans all have told me, the casualties do matter and if we do not take this thing to somekind of a close, those 3735 dead and 25,000 wounded; will have been for nothing. I hate to think that these great bunch of people, were wasted for nothing. In that, I also mean that nothing means that we did not "finish-the-job" and Iraq goes belly up.

I have met a few Iraqi's when I was volunteering at the CC Museum of Science and History. I found that the average Iraqi, is a real decent human being and not some mindless monster. BTW, these Iraqi's were doing some flight training in the area.

I hope this answers your question? Best reagrds

 

What has been achieved? GE, Lockhead Martin and Boeing stock share prices are up. That is enough to keep Bush & Associates happy.

 

I know a guy who has 3rd degree burns because he saw a woman being raped and beaten by terrorists in Iraq, he went over and beat off the terrorists (yes they had guns) and had a petrol bomb thrown at him (he says by a yound kid). He lost his lower right arm has burns up his right side, lost a ear and part of his lip and right eye lid. He was DEFENDING justice yet he didn't even get a 1 minute story on BBC.

Stories like this one are not told. All people hear about is negatives. I'm not saying that Iraq was good but i'm saying that the papers always focus on negatives, never positive or supporting (for our troops) things.

 

What has been achieved is that for one, there are new buildings and houses being built by the military. For another: the ripped-apart infrstructure is slowly coming back online. And another thing is that the Iraqi economy is slowly getting better.

Its going to take many years to undo what hussein did.

If those who would quit playing war and would drop their weapons for a spade or a rake and start growing food, then MAYBE the middle-east can become an active and productive member; of the world community.

But Noooooooooooooooooooooooo, we all know that instead of working, they want nothing but to destroy and kill.

Any other questions bud?

Best regards--C.

 

You see I think that its going to take many years to bring the country back to where Saddam had it.

But I just like you hope that the brave US lads that have paid the ultimate price didnt do it for no reason either.

Im just afraid that the way things are going the 3700 dead will turn into 7400 with little or no change. ( I hope im wrong.)

 

At the time I defended invasion of Iraq, WMD or no WMD. The only caution I had was that the Afghanistan business was not finished then (still isn't) an I have this thing about fighting in two fronts.

The idea of throwing down and bringing to justice a dictator is something that appealed to me. The problem is that things are not very linear in this cas, as instead of one Iraq there appear to be dozens of them at the same time.

Look at the losses the Us forces served, ration them against the number of troops there are present in the country, and compare that ration with other conflicts. Then come back here.

Most of the attacks are made against general population in markets, public thoroughfares, religious festivals, etc. How many American Occupants see their filthy blood spilt there? Zilch. The streams of blood belong to innocent bystanders, women, children. Why? Because they look good in the news and in any case it's the fault of the American Agressors.

Fault of the American Agressors my posterior, it's the fault of a divided society, some of which were ran off the top post and want to get back, others because they were in the bottom post and wat to be top, the cousins of these who want to be top instead, etc.

It's Sunni against Shia, but it's also Sunni against Sunni and Shia against Shia.

If it weren't for the innocents I mentioned above who it's not their fault having all these loonies using them as targets or shileds, it would be a case for getting out and closing the lid on the bucket, but unfortunately things are not that simple.

 

It will always be sunni against shia and vice versa. Unfortunately it will take someone like Hussein to keep the 'peace'. Name one country that operates with a 'voted in' government. Muslim country that is. The only one I can think of is Egypt. And even then, there is some controversy at election time but the people accept it and move one, relatively. Perhaps my facts are convoluted but I know one of you will set them straight.

 

PzJgr, there are also Morocco, Algier and those guys who splitted Cyprus. If you mean a really eleceted goverment.

 

Thank Karem, I knew someone would correct my facts.

 

what utter bull shit ! of course I have to understand that most of you are kids compared to me but you will never know what it cost me and my bro's in Vietnam to the grief and loss

if you guys only really knew what was going on over there and what is to be, but all you have is press releases and some politician getting on the tele and giving you Bull reports as claimed truths.

Dang if we only would let out boys do their frickin job like they didn't let us do in Nam, or Somalia, or in the first Afghan ops or ...........

 

Problem is - do they now know what their "job" over there is? (by "they", I mean the average grunt on the ground). I've seen mention in the (UK) press of this becoming a second Vietnam, but I disagree - Vietnam was winnable (especially if Westmoreland hadn't been thwarted by presidential power in '68) and the leash was removed. I see it more of a N.Ireland style situation.

Funny really. I thought that I'd seen an end to seeing and hearing of my friends dying for government policy the day that my boot hit UK soil back in '91. Pity that I was proven wrong in some sandy shithole a couple of months back.

Dave.

 

Dave the engagement in Babylon stalemated. We knew and still know what the job requires, the higher eschelon of politicians do not and need to take a closer look .....like come over first hand and roll in the sand. A nephew just re-upped for his second assignment as a ranger-sniper, he knows full well what is in store for him

 

The British Army was in Iraq for approx. 80 years and did not change the culture much so what makes the Bush administration it can change anything ?

Also it irritates me how they have completely ignored the person or people who mailed out the antrax and killed. Also why do countries like India, China, and Russia are able to get along with Iraq but the USA on the other side of the planet has to get involved ? Also how many Kuwati soldiers do you find in Iraq and how much money do they spent to help pay for the war ?

Bush jr and sr both have messed up the way they handled the war and perhaps they had good intentions, all that has been destroyed.

I mean no disrespect to you Erich in any way but as in Viet Nam how do you tell the good Iraq citazens from the bad ones ? Everyone agrees there is lots of corruption, how would you end the war in a good way for all involved ?
(no you can't nuke um ! )

 

Always was, and still is, the problem Erich. I doubt that anything will ever change on this point.

"Hals und beinbruch" to your nephew, by the way (I always believed that to say "good luck" was a curse). He might know what's in store (incidentally, myself and another tried to re-up on a 6 month contract last year but got told to basically "f - off, grandad!" - was offered an instruction course in Staffordshire (no thanks!) ), but does he know exactly why? (I don't!!!! )

Dave

 

Dave, been there done that.

we as a people have become most tolerent of evil since the 1970's. the present admin under Bush and formerly of his Father did not finish what was started. could it have been, a great possibility, but that is behind us. true as in nam you have peoples of mideast that do look the same in dress and mannerisms, and sadly like in Nam when China came to North Vietnams aid, the same application has come into Iraq from Damascus and Tehran.

how do we end this on a friendly note you ask............hard to say but it is impossible, we pull out to make the nations politicians happy and look good and the insurgents then rise especially in their own country or should I say take over their neighboring country, and all who have aided the coalition will die. We stay and we remain as we now stand a neutered force of police protection.
I do not visualize a Nuke being dropped unless someone really wants to pursue my envisioned Velodrome facility, but will say that something needs to be placed in such a way to un-nerve whom is sending support to the other side, this is result of cash flow, bodies and arms. As we did over Baghdad by shutting off their electricity (do you all remember that in the opened days) - was done through satellite connections as strike and destroy silently so the same thing in my opinion could and should be done to the capitals of Syria/Iran.
Without releasing secretive information, teams of able bodied elite forces could stay behind as our troops move out and the enemy combatants move in. And yes you would need something through trial and error to bring them in as we did years ago in the tropics. Granted we already have teams in-place in the two country's I mentioned even before we hit Baghdad, all they would need is the word go. things are set in motion right now that is not going to change, all we can do is wait and watch.
I'd like to see a pleasant, quiet and peaceful solution but it is just wishful thinking. We in the US of A as politicians need to quit seeing the Mid-east affair through western eyes. We have become so limited and blind to the reality..........