Hitler decides on a bombing mission to the US

That would be a pretty impressive piece of navigation. If they ran into cloud cover they would be in serious trouble. In June or July I also suspect the great circle route would put them in daylight for a good portion of the trip.

 

i want to go back to the propaganda aspect. here's my considerations:

1) there's a huge difference with the doolittle mission: in 1942 japs were not bombing US at all! the success of the doolittle mission sent a message to japan that sounded like "we can do it, but you can't".

2) On the contrary, in 1944 US were hammering germany almost daily. So dropping a couple of bombs on US what would have shown? that the nazis were able to do in very little scale what the US had already been doing in huge scale for years? it would sound ridicoulous

3) never forget that the japs once managed to bomb US mainland
Attacks on North America during World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
it was a ridicoulous attack but actually it happened. and what was the propaganda effect? nothing. US kept it secret. so probably it would have been the same if nazis had ever dropped few bombs in north east of US. nobody would have known.

4) BUT if the nazis had been able to launch the legendary A9 rocket and targeting US, well, in this case the propaganda effect would have been BIG. the same i stated above in point 1)

what do you think?

 

i wouldn't be so sure it would become a public story.
even though the bombs hit a large city, the authorities could make up a story. why not? they could say it was an accident: if i well remember in '45 a US bomber hit by accident the empire state buildig in NY (or maybe another skyscraper) so i guess it was not so strange to see planes flying over your roof those days.
in addition consider that the mission had a very low chance (if nothing) to go back to germany. if the planes had been shot down in the middle of nowhere (ocean or countryside) the US goverment could have invented literally everything.

and last but not least: the allied would probably have interceptad all german communications, as ususal.

 

Yes you are correct i did say that, it was meant to be sarcastic, as to many on here on this forum believe that Germany was incapable of bombing east of the Urals with the Messerscmitt Me-264 let alone America of which it was designed to do.

 

At last someone with some sense.

How can the Germans by 1943 or 1944 with the German codes being deciphered every day by Ultra could possibly conveive, and carry out a top level raid by Bv-222 flying boats on U.S soil without once breaking a communications blackout, once communications are broken the boffins at Bletching Park would know about the mission also how does the Germans manage to gather and hide so many aircraft and their supplies, Germany would have to establish a clandestine base of operations in either Iceland (out of the question), Greenland (again out of the Question) or Canada (oh please), nice idea but cant be done in that way, the only way it could be achieved is by super heavy bombers either delivering a light bombload on a return mission or a heavy bombload with the crews ditching in the Atlantic and resued by U-Boats, can this be done by the Bv-222

 

The aircraft part requires no radio communications prior to the event. Even with the Luftwaffe being the premier service using enigma code transmissions far in excess of anyone else. The aircraft modification and plan are so small scale this part would escape detection easily.
Now, the U-boat having to be on station in what would be very distant and hostile waters is a problem. It would need to transmit its being on station and other information for the aircraft to know prior to their actual mission. However, given the lag in decoding it is possible that the mission could be carried out prior to any effective countermeasures being carried out. But, there is no guarrentee that having the message traffic alone will tip the Allies off to the mission.
HF/DF might do more good by triangulating the u-boat's position and allowing tracking and interception.
The other problem for the Allies is covering their own tracks. There were numerous instances where German codes were decyphered and not allowed to be acted on because those actions had the potential to tip off the Germans that their codes were being read.
There would be no need for an actual base any more than the Japanese needed one to refuel flying boats that surveilled Pearl Harbor for about 6 months after the attack flying out of the French Frigate Shoals. The Japanese simply had a sub there to refuel them when they landed.
Six Bv 222 flying boats suitably modified could have easily flown the one way mission to Chicago with 3000 kg of bombs on board. This is a fraction of the usual cargo carried for a range of 2,000 nm. With additional fuel the aircraft could have easily made 3,000 to 3,500 nm. This is sufficent to make the one way trip and then make it to a rendevous point with a u-boat and refuel.
The big problem would be weather. Poor weather enroute could cause the loss or scattering of the planes or even throw them too badly off course. High winds could cause loss of range and force the aircraft down prior to carrying out the mission profile. Poor weather over the target would reduce the damage and propaganda impact.
I would think that weather is a bigger threat to failure than code breaking.

 

And one final spanner into the mix accidental detection by various sources, like say an ally submarine on the surface recharging it's batteries, allied coastal trawlers and the like. Although i can't see it being successfully being carried out, I think it could at least being attempted.

 

Those who can not believe never do.

 

And some of those can see and come to the conclusion that they don't have the resourse to attempt, and so they don't.

Hitler had no chance to launch an attack on the Americans in 1941, 1942, 1943, 1944 or 1945, if he could he would have done so, he got off on propaganda, but even this, in reality had no propagana value.

 

Manfred Griehl: Luftwaffe Over America provides the documentary evidence for a plan approved by Milch to bomb New York in the summer 1943.

BV 222 flying boats were to have been refuelled and bombed-up from two or three U-boats stationed at two positions in the Atlantic. The attack was to have been aimed primarily at the Jewish quarter of New York. Its purpose was merely propaganda and to see if the American public could "take it".

The loss of the U-boat War in 1943 halted the plan, and on account of the war situation in 1944 it was abandoned.

In December 1944/early 1945 Speer announced in radio broadcasts that U-boats would hit New York with "U-1 and U-2 bombs". Since nobody knew what he meant by this term, it has always been assumed that it was a transliteration for "V-1" and "V-2" and we have seen many wonderful ideas of how this attack was to be achieved. From Friedrich Georg's coming book "Weapons of Victory III" (Siegeswaffen IIB) it is clear that this threat was taken very seriously by the US. A description of the U-bomb (U=uranium disintegrating) appeared in the New York Times during Otober 1944, and from this description it is possible to see what kind of weapon this was.

The recent test by the Russians of a 7-tonne non-nuclear "Vacuum Bomb" based on nanotechnology and which is claimed to result in "Hiroshima-type" devastation without the radiation proves that a non-atomic bomb with the effect of an atomic bomb is possible. The German U-1 and 2 had a number of characteristics in common with the Russian bomb but was built on a different scientific principle and was significantly smaller.

The real problem for the Germans in contemplating the use of their U-bombs in early 1945 was that by then they desperately needed the Americans in Europe to help prevent the Soviets rolling forward to the Atlantic. The "U-bomb" was Hitler's miracle weapon and could be mass produced.

This is a wide subject to commit to a single post and I will supply further details on request. It is also alleged that the Germans hit factories in the Urals in early 1945 with the winged version of the V-2 rocket. The ultimate purpose of the V-2 campaign was for each rocket to have a U-bomb warhead, and so it was not the ludicrous waste of money which it seems. Only six more months, or six months earlier, and the situation might have been very different.

 

This seams unlikely. The navigation and coordination alone would be very difficult to achieve. Inclimate weather could result in the loss of the planes.

Just what are his qualifications. Sounds like a new Nazi super weapon/conspiracy theory book to me.

Which means absolutly nothing. The phrase "uranium disintegrating" is meaningless. How you correlate a quote from a German propaganda piece and a speculative article in the New Your Times is questionable. Especially since a complete referance to the article is not given.

It looks to me like you are spouting buzz words with no comprehension of what they mean. Nanotechnology is not about bombs, especially not about "vacuum Bombs". Just what principles were these U-1 and U-2 bombs built on and how do you know? What size were they?

Now you know that it can be mass produced when it's existance is still questionable.

Thus demonstrating a lack of knowledge of engineering on the part of those makeing the allegation.

 

We are having a spell of "inclimate" weather here in Argentina, so I will await a few more replies before I "spout" any more "buzz words". I would like to explain the scientific principle "uranium disintegrating" to LWD, but I fear it will be an uphill task. The purpose of a forum is to pursue ideas. Statements can be proved false or misunderstood, but it is important to have the explanation first. The judicious reader understands this.

 

Why? Is it because there is no science behind it? I can't see any other reasons it would be particularly difficult.

 

Are we still talking about a conventional or atomic attack, i am confused with technobabble about modern technology of nanotechnology overlayed with the then technology of World War Two, same applies to someone with trying to understand atomics to someone from World War One. The Germans might have however improbable, being able to carry out a conventional attack on the US, i think they could have done it, how is the difficult question as each senario has its faults, but if we are talking atomics then absolutely no way.

 

Then there was always that Uboat that was found off the East Coast of the US with an extraordinary amount of gas masks aboard.

The Germans developed an interesting array of agents that could be deployed if they decides to use gas.

 

I did mention in another post if Germany had developed atomics, i said one way of delivery into New York was by way of a U-Boat on a one way suiced mission.

 

Going off topic, I'll accept Germany might acquire a limited capability of carrying a useful bombload to the Urals.

But would they know what to look for? First of all Siberia is immense (well, it's a wee bit smaller than Texas and Alabama put together...), then the industry was dispersed along a multitude of sites, some of them right in the middle of no place at all (a mountain stream, a hydroplant, a rail branch: bang, an artillery factory springs from the grond). Also, the really large plants were so immensly large than a few bombs here and there woldn't make much of a difference.

First find your target, second make sure it's within humanly possible range, third make sure the bombing effort is worth it.

From the Allied bombing campaign against Germany, just bombing the industry was not enough as Speer assured that production was always increasing. Do you know how many Speers the Sovs had? Any one was a Speer with Stalin sending 'encouraging' telegrams!

Oh, and to reinforce my point about knowing where things were: security. Do you know that before the fall of communism, when you took your bus from Moscow airport to the city there were two cops aboard? When you reached certain sections of the road those cops would come and pull down all the window shutters on the right or left side of the bus. After a few minutes they would pull them back again, to be repeated later when you reached a not-for-foreign-eyes area. All without a word. Paranoia, security counciousness, your choice. No, finding target information in that country was not easy, no sir.

 

Having a Chekist as your friend does wonders!