Best Tank of WW2??????

Panther vs Tiger in breakdowns. Post 1943 the Panther was much better. It was also lighter and easier to recover.

Panthers would hold up allied advances, you just don't hear about it as often. The heavy tank battalions were also sent to areas to stop allied advances starting late 43 and on.

Designing the Panther: Yes the T-34 was good. What happens with two equal tanks fighting. Chance/skill becomes King. Most people like to give their skilled men the best equipment. So the push was to make a better tank than the T-34 , hence the Panther. Because of the Panther and Tiger the T-34 was up gunned to the T-34/85. I diverge.

The T-34 was a good tank, its chassis was probably the best in the war. But the turret and gun were only average. IMO.

 

Taking into account all circumstances there wasn't a best tank or there were several. For instance neither the T-34, Panther, or Tiger would have worked as well for the US as the Sherman did. Although if the US had gotten plans for the T-34 in say 38 the vehicle that emerged might have been superior to the Sherman.

 

Agree with much of what Von Poop noted. The Tiger I had been an idea on the table before the war- the idea of a heavy "breakthrough tank". Not especially revolutionary, just really big and mean for the time.
And to call the Tiger's turret "sloped armor" is quite a stretch... it was curved, but that was as much a simple design matter as it was an attempt to use the shot-deflecting aspect of sloped armor.

Panther was a completely different "animal".
Panther was inspired by, and created to counter the T34, but was a vastly superior tank in most every aspect other than ease of manufacture. The Ausf Ds and Ausf As had some serious and nagging mechanical issues (bad exhaust system leading to common engine fires being referred to as "teething problems" might be the best understatement of WW2 armor)- but by the time the Ausf G rolled around, the Panther was probably the best tank of the war.

Also agree with the Pooper on the Panther's gun. Can't find any good stats at the moment, but from what I understand, the 75mm/L70 gun was actually superior to that of the Tiger in an anti-tank role.

In an abstract, 1-on-1 scenario... Panther Ausf G would be hard to argue against as the best tank of the war. If manufacturing ease comes into the equation, then the T34 gets a boost- but ease of manufacture incorporates a LOT of factors besides simply tank quality.

Tiger I was a great tank, and equal to or superior to most of what the Allies fielded, but also benefited a LOT from reputation.

And general bad-ass-ness.

 

I would stretch my neck and say that IF (me saying "if" !!! ) the Panther was produced in the US (meaning all the kinks ironed out but keeping the same gun) it would be the best medium tank overall. Second to that, a Panther produced in the URSS, but then with all the kinks SERIOUSLY ironed out

 

Is the M18 hellcat technically a tank, bloomin fast thing, and from a mechanical point of view probably the easiest to repair in ww2 with engne changes possible in just over an hour due to the slide out engine arrangement and a similar front gearbox arrangement... fantastic design ........ built by buick too.....

 

If this is a question then no it is a tank destroyer, designed to provide anti-tank support

 

I think that most tanks were considered to have an enclosed top unlike the M3,M10,M18,M36 "Gun Motor Carriage " in US Army terms or "tank destroyer"

 

Hellcat would be in a grey area, in my opinion. Open top- but also did have a 360 degree rotating turret. I always think of a tank destroyer in terms of the no turret, gun-forward-to-accomodate-bigger-gun vehicle.

But I do believe the US Army technically characterized it as a tank destroyer...

 

Of course it's a Tank destroyer, you could say it's the epitome of the TD function as applied by the US. The real problem comes with any definition of the word 'Tank'. If rigid semantics are applied then by the usual criteria of closed traversable turret, full track, etc. the original Tanks of WW1 (excepting, mainly, the FT17) would not be classified as 'tanks'.
If defining a 'tank' I'd base the description on the perceptions of anyone who faces a column of tracked enemy vehicles bearing down on them... Whether engineer vehicle, TD/SPATG., Assault Gun or actual tank they're going to shout an alarm (and likely know in their heart of hearts) that 'tanks' are coming.
Patrick Wright's book 'Tank', which is a kind of social history of the vehicle, is quite good on these clashes between official designations and on the spot perceptions.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

Tank: Armored vehicle having caterpillar traction and armed with machine guns, cannon, rockets, or flame throwers.

No JOe I am not opening up that disussion of battle tanks again lol

 

T-34 had the numbers, and out classed the panzer III and perhaps the IV...but to claim it as the best tank??? the panther outclassed it in fire power, electronic radio sets, optical range finder, gunnery as the 75 was a semi automatic, and didn't require a loader, as opposed to the 88 used on the tiger...their was a revised t-34 produced in '44 with improved firepower, but was still not a match for the panther...

it states in may of 44 only 304 panthers where on the eastern front opposed to 1200 t-34 being produced per month...through attriction, the t-34 was superior, but even or slightly numerically advantaged,,,the victor would be the panther...hands down...

 

"Perhaps"? It was far superior to the Mark IV in almost every aspect.

 

You are downplaying the importance of the T-34's easy production and reliability. The Russians need a tank like the T-34 to back their war effort and overwhelm the Germans with numbers. Yes the Panther did outclass the T-34 in a lot of ways, and in a one on one battle would probably have more wins than losses. However, you say yourself that only 304 Panthers were on the Eastern Front in may of 44 (I have no idea if this is true I am just going with what you said) against 1200 T-34's! That is why the T-34 was a better tank.

 

If the minutiae of the T34 is to be compared, it's well worth considering the different models and their relative strengths. eg. a /76 model & a /85 model, of whichever type, are rather different beasts when playing the 'best' game with a late model Pz.IV as a comparator.
'T34' is rather a blanket designation.

Cheers,
Adam.

 

Sorry, I guess I meant the T-34/85 model.

 

Well the differences between the T-34 and the panther which ever model is simply the fact that the weights are different. The Panther in all regards should be classed as a heavy tank while the T-34 is a a medium tank, yes the T-34\85 had been upgunned to take on the heavier tanks but it was still a medium tank.

So with that in which regards are we referring to? Tank Vs Tank? The Panther over the T-34, but now in terms of numbers of being produces and the sheer amount that could be deployed is the T-34 over the panther.

Now what about in terms of "effects" after the war? Which tank has stayed in active service even to now in secondary countries? the T34, so which one is better?

Yes in a one on one engagment the panther would win, again because it is a heavy tank by nature. It is like comparing a sherman to a panther.

 

Time, time, time, time. It all depends on timeframe. On June 22nd 1941 what good tank did the Germans have to oppose the T-34? Ditto for 1942? Only in '43 did the Pz IV with long 75s started to show up in significant numbers and even so. By then the T-34 was being overtaken by a better gunned Pz IV, balance being later recovered by the T-34/85.

As for comparison with Pz V and Pz VI, just remember to look at tonnage. Otherwise you'll always be comparing coconuts to nutmegs, better look at the KV/JS series, and even then the JS-2 will carry a much bigger punch at a much lesser weight.

 

In 1943 I would still think the T-34/76 to be the "better" tank to the Mark IV, even with the L 43 gun. It was still cheaper, faster, and had that good sloped armor.

 

Ah yes the firepower, better optics and radio sets.....

All very important, until the mighty Panther would break down. Then the German crew could use their radio sets to call for help and request another Panther to come to their aid which in turn would also break down. The optics would then be used between the two to establish how much time they have to run away before the hundreds of T-34's which they see would close in.

 

Probably more like thouands of them, hmmm should we bother running?