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Barbarossa in trouble

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by Richard, Oct 15, 2006.

  1. Seatco

    Seatco Dishonorably Discharged

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    I didn't know - I only knew what I read 35 years ago in the books I read then about it.

    Then looking here in an older book balled Barbarossa Invasion of Russia 1941, John Keegan, it states on page 48, "Hitler himself, though irritated by the delay imposed by the Balkan campaign...." So here it states that Hitler considered the Balkan deal to have been a cause of DELAY for his Russian invasion. Did YOU guys have some info that Hitler didn't have available to him 66 years ago? He seemed to think that the Balkans HAD delayed his Russian invasion. It also states on the same page: "Originally planned for 15th May,..." It states that the Balkan deal had delayed the Russian invasion and that Hitler was irritated by this. Now I read this in other books from the 60s as I recall, so what books or materials are you quoting from? I hope no one is just jawing history out and taking votes, rather than using real source materials.

    As to how this concerns the wasted effort securing the Ukraine that Hitler wanted even though his generals disagreed, since they wanted to quickly take Moscow seems to appear no where in your post.
     
  2. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    I think it was Guderian who was quite shocked when ordered to turn south instead of going to Moscow. Not saying the Soviets were not doing their best but the main German forces were elsewhere for awhile.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kiev_(1941)

    Once the Typhoon started late Oct the Soviets had two+ months time to create defensive lines in front of Moscow.
     
  3. Seatco

    Seatco Dishonorably Discharged

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    I used to think Hitler was a saboteur (Dunkirk, Giving up on Spain, slowing the drive to Moscow - just to name a few) but after more reading came to realize he was just way in over his head in his role as armature emperor. After reading his 2nd book I came to realize his turn into the Ukraine was just the result of his many decades love affair with German farm expansion. In a big sense I feel like his attitude was like that of those badly led armies in history that would fall to grabbing up plunder before the actual battle was finished. No doubt Hitler looked forward to some propaganda broadcast where he could announce the expansion of German farming. As you likely know Stalin, who was a meddler at the beginning - quickly quit that bad habit and allowed his experts to take over the micro managing. Hitler did just the reverse as the war went on.
     
  4. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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  5. PzJgr

    PzJgr Drill Instructor

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    Could that be because Army Group Centre was more mobile due to higher number of panzer divisions and mobile infantry?
     
  6. Kai-Petri

    Kai-Petri Kenraali

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    Perhaps, but also that the Red Army had more modern tanks in the southern army group sector.

    Also I have seen being discussed that Rundstedt was receiving troops from the Balkans´ offensive last so he was already underpowered when starting the Barbarossa on 22nd June.
     
  7. Heartland

    Heartland Member

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    Yeah, the south had more Red Army troops, because it was obvious (to Stalin...) that the south was the most strategically valuable part of the country. Grain, food, industry, raw materials, etc.

    Additionally, the Soviet commander in the south (Kirponos) used something of an in-depth defence rather than placing his troops up front to be encircled and chopped up.
     

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