SS Insignia auction row

BBC NEWS | England | Nazi badges auction 'disgraceful'

 

Well, I can't comment on the morality or otherwise....excuse me, I must just nip up into the attic.......

 

I can't believe you are taking this..... oops, sorry Gordon, force of habit

It does raise a question though, why do some people like to collect this kind of stuff at home? I can't think of any explanation of why I have odds and ends like this that would make sense to anyone.

Would be interesting to see what else they have, I mean none of those are specifically Totenkopf insignia so far, just standard issue SS cap patches. Wonder what the commando dagger is doing there.

 

I'm back down from the attic - there's nothing up there except a broken-backed chair, a box of LPs, and an empty wasps' nest. Some guys have all the luck.....

 

Difficult and sensitive issue. Not very moral I'm afraid, even if they are collectables.

 

Why? How is it immoral to own something like this? Ok, if you are setting them up in some sort of shrine then yeah, sure, that is wrong. What if, like most collectors, you put them in a book or case on display with other items you have collected because you like owning a piece of history?

Does that mean the soviet flag I have is 'immoral?'

Not necessarily disagreeing, just wondering what people think is morally wrong about owning a badge, surely it is what you do with it that is the issue?

 

Agreed. But would you burn those insignia or sell them if they were yours to start with??! This question is directed to everyone.

I guess I´d sell if I had to.

 

I'd keep them, give them to a museum and most likely they will languish in some vault with all the other odds and ends people donate. Keep them and they could be kept in good condition, cared for and actually used to educate people who are actually interested.

 

Stefan et al

You raise an interesting point to which I would like to add.

During the war, I myself collected a few bits of "enemy" memorabilia which I pasted into my Army Album, including an Afrika Corps armband, and I suppose these bits and pieces would have been considered normal "trophies" collected by someone who had seen active service.

I'd also (in hindsight I now cringe at my youthful insensitivity) picked up during my travels, an SS Dress Dagger which I retained until my first trip home to England.

As our channel ferry docked at Folkestone, an announcement came over the tannoy that anyone caught bringing a weapon into England would be shipped straight back to Europe and there was a chorus of "plops" over the side as we all dumped our weaponry

But with regard to the Nazi insignia now being offered for sale, I have no problems with that whatsoever and consider the pieces artifacts of history that someone is looking to sell for whatever reason.

However....... If a person who buys any of these badges was eventually to sew them on to, for example, an SS uniform, as a means of making that uniform more authentic, then I would immediately take issue with the motive behind such an action.

 

What if it was simply to display it in a more authentic setting? It's simply putting them in context is it not? Again, surely it's what you then do with that uniform that matters.

Incidentally, my grandfather had a very similar story to tell about souvenirs etc, being told they would face 20 years if caught bringing weapons to Britain and dumping all of his 'souvenirs,' quite a collection actually.

 

*mutters dark oaths in Gaelic*.....

 

My uncle brought back a Luftwaffe helmet, and ceremonial dagger. I wonder whether Americans were under the same restrictions as our British friends, or did he just smuggle them in.

 

The full collection, discovered in an attic, can be viewed here SS050708 Lot:453-501 in the auctioneer's catalogue, lots 451 to 467. Lot 463 are the items in question.

 

So actually we have no idea what division they are, simply that they are SS cap badges? Again, I wonder what the commando dagger is doing there?

 

The Commando Brigades shoulder badge, and it's shown upside down, is clearly a mistake made by the auctioneer. The BBC certainly didn't spot it.

British Formation Signs

Peter

 

I can see both sides of this coin.
I don't see the attraction to the Nazi stuff at all. I don't fault anyone who does mind you, it just is not my area of interest. If I found those items in my attic, I wouldn't throw it out. It's a part of our history, tragic as it was. I would find someone who appreciated them for what they are. But, as Ron stated above, if they were to apply them to a uniform and start prancing around like a Hitler "wannabe", yeah I would have a real problem with that!

 

I have numbered the insignia from 1 to 7, see attached image.

1. is a damaged Luftwaffe or paratroop waffenfarbe national cockade, the left wing missing.
A full example is shown here in a reproduction http://www.oakleafmilitaria.com/images/083h4-1.jpg

2. These are two examples of the national cockade worn by all the armed services other than the SS. A replica example is shown here http://www.ulric-of-england.com/HEADWEAR/caverel1.jpg A wide range in quality and colour existed, the centre represented the national colours of Germany, red centre, white (or silver), and black outer. The surrounding oak leaves represented strength.

3. The three badges are the only SS insignia in this group, but it is not possible to identify the division.

4. This is one of the epaulettes of an NCO's dress uniform, the snake indicates that he was in a veterinary unit.

5. Two standard issue German army badge worn over the right breast of the army tunic.

6. This is an SS cloth forage cap badge, but this one looks fake to me. Note the crossbones and compare with No. 3.

7. This is an inverted British Commando Brigades badge.

Peter

 

I don't see anything wrong with collecting WWII German items. Personally I stay away from all Nazi items. I don't collect anything political, Allgemeine SS, Sturm Abteilung or any political-like stormtrooper kind of organization. However, I do only collect Military items-sch as bravery award medals and badges, cap tallies, war badges, uniforms, shoulderboards and collartabs, ribbon bars, headgear, weaponry, and ID discs.

The only Nazi item in my collection-is an early 1923 or 1925 made banner. The only reason I have it is because I traded away a few items I had no interest in to a dealer who didn't have much to choose from that had any real value to is-so I got the flag and two 1939 EKIIs without ribbons. One EKII was the slightly smaller "Schinkle" cross-which I gave away to a WWII German Artillery Officer who no longer had any of his war momentos left-except for his Frozen Meat Medal which he gave to me.

 

A bit off topic but i believe its Illegal in Australia/New Zealand to sell Nazi memorabilia on EBAY. Ok fairenough some people may think its immoral to purchase Nazi era relics etc etc but i dont believe theres a law against purchasing Japanese Imperial Army memorabilia, which is a bit ironic.

 

Im sure some public figures may feel theres something machavellian behind the purchase of these badges. Come on be realistic. "Who" other than a collector is going to pay $300 for a WWII era badge.

Nazi wannabes could no doubt order a box full Nazi Insignia for $300 off the Internet.