Brit's WWII Nazi Deal Plan Unveiled

Amateur diplomat sought Nazi pact




A British amateur diplomat tried to make a peace deal with Germany in World War II, National Archive files reveal.

Old Etonian James Lonsdale-Bryans travelled to Rome to meet with German diplomat Ulrich von Hassell.
He proposed to him that Germany could have a "free hand" in Europe while Britain ran the rest of the world.
MI5 files released under the Freedom of Information Act show that security service officials knew of the Rome trip but did not try to stop it.
Bryans's story would make sensational reading in the Daily Mirror


MI5's TM Shelford





The level of Foreign Office backing given to Lonsdale-Bryans remains unclear but a handwritten note from the security service stated: "He went to Italy with the knowledge of the F.O. in order to develop his contacts. He greatly exceeded his instructions."
Lonsdale-Bryans met with Ulrich von Hassell because he considered him to be "sympathetic" to the possibility of a negotiated peace.
Von Hassell was opposed to Hitler's regime and was executed in the aftermath of a failed assassination plot.
A security service letter outlined Lonsdale Bryans's views, saying: "He is a man with somewhat unusual views about the terms on which peace should be made with Hitler.
"He thinks the world should be divided up into German and British spheres of influence - the Germans being given a more or less free hand in Europe."
Potential embarrassment
Lonsdale-Bryans first came to MI5's attention in 1939 following pro-German comments he made in Singapore.
The security services were acutely aware of the embarrassment which could be caused by any government association with him.
A letter from 1941 said: “Although there seems to be a good deal to be said for locking him up to prevent him airing his views… if this is done it will inevitably involve his bringing up the question of his contacts with the Foreign Office.”
Another one from 1944 said: “Bryans's story would make sensational reading in the Daily Mirror if he were driven by financial necessity to sell it to the press. “You will know better than I the ‘daily workers' reaction to such a story having regard in particular to Lord Halifax.”

BBC NEWS | UK | Amateur diplomat sought Nazi pact

 

WWII diplomat proposed Britain, Germany split world

• Records show that amateur diplomat proposed dividing world
  Germany would take Europe, and Britain would take the rest of the world
• James Lonsdale-Bryans was a fascist sympathizer

LONDON, England (AP) -- An amateur diplomat alarmed British officials during World War II by proposing that Germany and Britain divide the world between them, according to records released Sunday.
James Lonsdale-Bryans, a fascist sympathizer, traveled to Italy early in the war to meet the German ambassador, Ulrich von Hassell.
"It would appear that Bryans may be taking part in unofficial discussions," said a Secret Service memo released by the National Archives.
"Bryans' idea is that the world ought to be divided into two parts. That Germany should be given a free hand in Europe and that the British Empire should run the rest of the world.
"I am not sure that this is a very desirable point of view to publish at the present time."
The records show that Bryans had been in touch with Britain's Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax, and the Secret Service was unsure how much backing Lonsdale-Bryans may have had from the Foreign Office.
"Bryans is a talkative and indiscreet fellow who is in possession of a story which he delights in telling and which if told publicly would be likely to cause embarrassment to the Foreign Office," one memo said.
Lonsdale-Bryans also tried to discuss his plans with American officials including Gen. Dwight Eisenhower, prompting British officials to tell the Americans that Lonsdale-Bryans was "unreliable though not disloyal."
Despite whatever embarrassment Lonsdale-Bryans may have caused, British officials did not move against him.
"Although there seems to be a good deal to be said for locking him up to prevent him airing his views to all and sundry, I understand that if this is done it will inevitably involve his bringing up the question of his contacts with the Foreign Office and the facilities afforded him to go to Italy," said a letter from an official in the Foreign Office.
Other previously secret records released under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that British spies considered using carrier pigeons to spread misinformation among the Germans before the D-Day landings in 1944.
The Secret Service devised a plan to drop pigeons behind enemy lines in France carrying false information about the location of the landings.
The files show that the Allies dropped thousands of homing pigeons into occupied France by parachute during the war, carrying questionnaires to be filled with information that could help the Allied cause. Only 10 percent of the birds returned, leading officials to conclude many had fallen into German hands.
"It occurs to me that this is a possible means of putting deception over to the enemy by the careful framing of the questionnaires, as presumably the Germans must, if they capture some of these birds, take notice of the type of question which is being asked," wrote an official identified as Lt. Col. Robertson in a letter to intelligence staff.
Christopher Andrew, the official historian of the Security Service, said the D-Day pigeon plan was considered but never carried out.

WWII diplomat proposed Britain, Germany split world - CNN.com

 

Dividing the world between the two.What about the USA? Would Britain handle them and Germany the USSR?....

Don't think so....

 

IMO just another ill born idea of Hitler. He never understood that Britain would never accept to be just a number two.

Besides Britain not willing to share his racial views and madness.

Regards
Kruska

 

I'm assuming by 'rest of the world' the contemporary reference point would be the established colonial possessions & spheres of influence of the European states.

This quote says it all really doesn't it:

Also from the archive material referenced on that BBC article:

& from the CNN page:

I don't think there's much to this 'loose cannon' story, there's a few other parallels in the British upper-class Right Wing of the time, but I do find myself wondering, aside from the loose references to high-up contacts; What did he know that was so potentially embarrassing?..

Cheers,
Adam.

 

I found this pretty funny in and of itself.

"Other previously secret records released under the Freedom of Information Act reveal that British spies considered using carrier pigeons to spread misinformation among the Germans before the D-Day landings in 1944.
The Secret Service devised a plan to drop pigeons behind enemy lines in France carrying false information about the location of the landings.
The files show that the Allies dropped thousands of homing pigeons into occupied France by parachute during the war, carrying questionnaires to be filled with information that could help the Allied cause. Only 10 percent of the birds returned, leading officials to conclude many had fallen into German hands.
"It occurs to me that this is a possible means of putting deception over to the enemy by the careful framing of the questionnaires, as presumably the Germans must, if they capture some of these birds, take notice of the type of question which is being asked," wrote an official identified as Lt. Col. Robertson in a letter to intelligence staff.
Christopher Andrew, the official historian of the Security Service, said the D-Day pigeon plan was considered but never carried out."

 

Brit's WWII Nazi Deal Plan Unveiled


By Sky News SkyNews - Sunday, August 31 10:58 am An amateur diplomat tried to secure peace during the Second World War by offering Germany free reign in Europe in exchange for British rule over the rest of the world, it has been revealed.

​

Old Etonian and fascist sympathiser James Lonsdale-Bryans travelled to Italy in an attempt to negotiate the deal with the Germans in the early days of the war, according to previously unreleased documents.
The Security Service files released under the Freedom of Information Act revealed that the Foreign Office were aware of Lonsdale-Bryans' activities.
Despite various attempts to control him, he travelled to Italy for covert discussions with the German ambassador in Rome - Ulrich von Hassell.
A Secret Service file revealed the level of unease about Lonsdale-Bryans' actions.
It read: "It would appear that Bryans may be taking part in unofficial discussions for the benefit of troops under the auspices of education Officer. Bryans idea is that the world ought to be divided into two parts.
"That Germany should be given a free hand in Europe and that the British Empire should run the rest of the world. I am not sure that this is a very desirable point of view to publish at the present time."
Lonsdale-Bryans contacted the then Foreign Secretary Lord Halifax with his plans, much to the consternation of officials.
The files reveal the Secret Service were unsure and at times paranoid as to how much backing Lonsdale-Bryans had from Lord Halifax.
Further problems were caused when it was revealed that Lonsdale-Bryans had tried to discuss his plans with senior American officials including Dwight D Eisenhower, who, during the war, was Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces in Europe.
This prompted the British to reassure the Americans that he was merely "unreliable though not disloyal".

Brit's WWII Nazi Deal Plan Unveiled - Yahoo! News UK

 

It seems Britain could have made peace with Germany at any time, on any terms. Germany even offered to go back to here 1939 borders.
But, Britain would not make peace on any terms.
There were quite a few peace initiatives. They were all sabotaged by the British Government. See "Failure of a Peace Effort" by the Duke of Bedford. That one concerned an approach to the German Embassy in Ireland.
Some historians now think that the USSR was planning to invade Western Europe, and would have moved as soon as Hitler had launched an invasion against Britain.
Hence the constant threat of an invasion was kept up until mid 1941. But it was only to make Russia think invasion was imminent.
It puts the Hess episode into a new light!
Keith

 

So are you saying that even after invading Poland, Denmark,Norway,The Netherlands, Luxemberg and France that Germany would go back to the 1939 borders if Britain made peace?

 

Do you seriously think that peace with Britain would have stopped or satisfied Hitler and his ultimate ambitions? Or was he just misunderstood?

 

Read Mein Kampf, he wanted them as an ally to combat Russia. That's why Hess flew to England cause he knew they would lose without them.


-British Free Corps

-British Nazi friendship badge

They made these for a reason.

 

No thanks I read it once and that was enough.

 

Ill ask the same question to you. Do you think that even after invading Poland, Denmark,Norway,The Netherlands, Luxemberg and France that Germany would go back to the 1939 borders if Britain made peace?

 

Since I don't have a copy, and it has been awhile since I have read that tome of drivel, IIRC more then anything he wanted an alliance with Britain so as to assure only having one front to fight on while trying to attain his idea of "lebensraum". He didnt want to be fighting both in the East and the West at the same time. Not for Britain to help in the fight against Russia.

 

Too bloody right. Just the ramblings of a mad man ect ect ect.

Tea anyone?

And one fruit loop on the side?

 

Two peas in a pod when it comes to him and Hitler. Both loonies. BTW Mein Kampf was hilarious!!! I couldn't stop laughing.

 

I never drunk so much black coffee in my life to read that book and I have no plans to read his second one.

 

And yet there are those out there that believe in what it says and think poor ol Hitler wanted only peace and was misunderstood .And that the British people wanted to be friends with the Nazis. Thank God that those people were few and far between .

 

Yes.
At any time the Germans agreed too, and on any terms Germany allowed them

Her December 1939 borders that is.

Not on any the Nazi's would offer anyway

"sabotaged" ????
The lawful government of the UK has the right to reject or ignore any plans or initiatives that it feels is not in the best interests of the nation.

Don't you just love the use of the word 'some' :lol:

The vast majority of historians think this theory is total nonsense

Try telling that to the over 30,000 British civilians killed in the Blitz

No it doesn't. He's still a raving loon whatever light you put him in

 

You really did? Jesus - I gave up on it after 3 attempts (maybe 40% in total) I just couldn't bear it any more.

In regards to your question (Hitler back to borders as of December 1939).

Yes I truely believe he would have - offcourse such a retreat takes time - see US in Iraq. And once he would have reached his initial goal line in Russia, the Wehrmacht wouldn't have been far away to retake it and attack Britain.

Regards
Kruska