Nazi / U.S. Alliance

I have been told a few times that when the Nazis went into Russia they secretly tried to ally with the U.S. to defeat the bolsheviks because they knew eventually Russia would try to take over the Western world. Any truth to this?

 

Really?
I haven't really read anything up on that, but that would not surprise me at all. I could dig through some of my books and sources to see if I can find anything, but I can't promise you much.

 

I would appreciate that.

 

So far, nothing of the sort.
Where exactly did you hear this? I'm actually rather curious about this subject now. (I'm currently still working on finding it.)

 

The first person who told me this was actually my uncle who died last year, he was a P-51 Mustang pilot in the European theatre and had hundreds of books about WWII. He said that the Nazis believed especially at the end of the war that the U.S. would be forced to ally with them in-order to fight off the Russian hordes but little did they know they had already had their own plan with the Allies. My WWII veteran uncle also said the Germans had the best military on the planet and the U.S. won simply because we had more of everything. Someone else told me that they wanted the Western allies support in removing the bolshevik threat, Hitler thought England would be a strong ally during his war in the East but fate proved otherwise. Hitler even wrote in mein kampf that he wanted peace with England. So again I'm not sure if the Nazis secretly tried to make a pact with the U.S. regarding Russia, being that the U.S. were supplying aid/munitions to England it seems unlikely though. By the way nice sig!

 

I'm sorry to hear about your uncle passing, and may he rest in peace. I do understand what he is saying there, it makes sense honestly. In a sense if towards the end of the war, if the US had still been in the same position they would have made a pact with Germany. Then again... I'm not sure how England would react either! I could actually ask one of my friends fathers, he's a history nut, espically when it comes to things like this. So I'll give him a ring in the next day or so and see what he knows! Thank you for the sig comment! I'm liking yours also!

 

Despite Germany having the best military they did make some very flawed decisions, if Germany had England as an ally then they could have taken on Russia but it still would have been a gamble. The simple fact is Hitler went into Russia for the oil fields which is what the modern day wars seem to be all about too.

 

Its pretty common knowledge that as the Germans were retreating, there was talk of "You shouldn't be killing us, you should be killing the Russians." Such talk did not predate the last few years of the War - Britain went to War with Germany long before Germany even invaded Russia. I don't know all the details, but the irony of the whole thing is that the Cold War between the US/Russia really started once they all decided they would carve up Germany in the manner in which they did.

As far as "Germany only attacked Russia for the Oil", well, that is simply ludicrous! It would have been much more beneficial for him to keep Russia as an Ally if he wanted Oil. Trade would have been a much easier method for obtaining the Oil, which was located far away from the German (later, Poland) Border. Once the dice had been thrown, it only made sense to go for the Russian Oil to fuel the German War Machine, but that is not why they went after Russia (and is debate for an entirely different thread itself).

 

I concur with Mussolini. It was towards the end of the war that Germany did have the foresight of the cold war but was dillusional in thinking that the Western Allies at this late stage of the war would join up with Germany against the Russians. But as far as my knowledge, there has never been any information about them making these approaches or lines of thought in 41'.

 

I've read that Hitler had repeatedly asked Stalin for oil and he refused to share.

 

Even before the Pact between the Axis and the Soviet Union, even Weimar Germany was importing a great deal of oil from the Soviets, and after the 1939 "agreement" the Soviets sent millions of gallons of oil, bushels of grain, and tons of alloys to Germany. The raw materials were cut off when the Nazis invaded. They quite naturally waited to launce the invasion until the final grain train had been delivered!

As to your other postitions:

I suggest you pick up a copy of Mein Kampf (if you can), refer to Chapter IV; where you will find Adolf Hitler’s true sentiment toward the eastern territories which he called "Russia", and since the brand new (at the time) nation of the USSR was just coming out of its civil war the year before he wrote it, and had not yet even been recognized as a "nation" by the rest of the world it is understandable to say the least:

"If land was desired in Europe, it could be obtained by and large only at the expense of Russia, and this meant that the new Reich must again set itself on the march along the road of the Teutonic Knights of old, to obtain by the German sword sod for the German plow and daily bread for the nations." (p.140)

And remember the first edition was written while Hitler was in prison after the failed "Beer Hall Putsch", and when Adolf had been introduced to Karl Haushofer, my copy has both editions actually, since the second is the more lengthy but it has footnotes to how each sentence varyied from the first edition. Haushofer was an internationally respected geopolitical professor who mentored Rudolf Hess (Hitler’s secretary), while Hess was in college. Haushofer was the originator of the concept of Lebensraum which Hitler embraced wholeheartedly.

Read the whole chapter concerning Lebensraum, as it clearly defines why other solutions to Germany’s inability to "feed its growing populace", and supply its growing industry with raw materials cannot be satisfied by other than expansion to the "east". At the expense of the Poles, Ukrainians, peoples of the Belarus, and all other Slavs.

As per Great Britain he had written in Mein Kampf that; "...Only children could have thought that they could get their bananas in the 'peaceful contest of nations' by friendly and moral conduct and constant emphasis on their peaceful intentions, as they so high-soundingly and unctuously babbled; in other words, without ever having to take up arms. No: if we chose this road, England would some day inevitably become our enemy. It was more than senseless-but quite in keeping with our own innocence-to wax indignant over the fact that England should one day take the liberty to oppose our peaceful activity with the brutality of a violent egoist." "...The talk about the 'peaceful economic' conquest of the world was possibly the greatest nonsense which has ever been exalted to be a guiding principle of state policy." (Mein Kampf p.143)

Hitler tried but failed to subdue Great Britain, by bombing or lack luster U-boat blockade, but he didn’t want them as ‘allies", he wanted them to stay out and not interfere with his continental conquests.

"Today many European states are like pyramids stood on their heads. Their European area is absurdly small in comparison to their weight of colonies, foreign trade, etc." (further on the same page) "...For Germany, consequently, the only possibility for carrying out a healthy territorial policy lay in the acquisition of new land in Europe itself."; "...not for territories outside of Europe (overseas), but for land on the home continent itself" (Mein Kampf p. 139)

And then later he opined that; "…on this point we must achieve full clarity: The inexorable mortal enemy of the German people is and remains France." (Mein Kampf p.619)

Hitler did manage to "subdue" the northern portion of France, and exploit is minerals, but his west was always insecure, and turning his back on it in 1941 and attacking the USSR was the beginning of the end of the despicable Third Reich.

As to his invading of the USSR, that was also an original plan expressed in his tome of hate (Mein Kampf). One thing you have to admit about the fellow, when he made his mind up he never changed course, much to his comrades dismay in many cases. It was his policy and desire from the moment he considered the geopolitics of Karl Haushofer while in Landsberg Prison serving his laughable "time" for treason. Karl Haushofer’s influence is clear in these passages.

It was also Haushofer who promoted the concept of the Japanese as "honorary Aryans", as Haushofer was totally enamored with their culture and "sense of honor". As if these openly published concepts weren’t enough to keep both the US and UK out of any alliance with or even tolerance of the Axis, then one has to factor in both the "Anti-Commintern Pact" between Germany, Italy, and Japan coupled with the final "Pact of Steel" Axis agreement. From that moment on the "sides had been defined", and any wish to alter them was a dream at best and an hallucination at worst (see Hess).

When Hitler attacked Poland, in spite of all pleas by FDR and other leaders not to do so; FDR addressed the American public with this radio broadcast (unlikely that Hitler or his representatives could make a deal with this gentleman from this moment on);

Tonight my single duty is to speak to the whole of America.


Until 4:30 this morning I had hoped against hope that some miracle would prevent a devastating war in Europe and bring to an end the invasion of Poland by Germany.

For 4 long years a succession of actual wars and constant crises have shaken the entire world and have threatened in each case to bring on the gigantic conflict which is today unhappily a fact.


It is right that I should recall to your minds the consistent and at times successful efforts of your Government in these crises to throw the full weight of the United States into the cause of peace. In spite of spreading wars I think that we have every right and every reason to maintain as a national policy the fundamental moralities, the teachings of religion, and the continuation of efforts to restore peace-for some day, though the time may be distant, we can be of even greater help to a crippled humanity.


It is right, too, to point out that the unfortunate events of these recent years have been based on the use of force or the threat of force And it seems to me clear, even at the outbreak of this great war, that the influence of America should be consistent in seeking for humanity a final peace which will eliminate, as far as it is possible to do so, the continued use of force between nations.
It is, of course, impossible to predict the future. I have my constant stream of information from American representatives and other sources throughout the world. You, the people of this country, are receiving news through your radios and your newspapers at every hour of the day.

You are, I believe, the most enlightened and the best informed people in all the world at this moment. You are subjected to no censorship of news; and I want to add that your Government has no information which it has any thought of withholding from you.


At the same time, as I told my press conference on Friday, it is of the highest importance that the press and the radio use the utmost caution to discriminate between actual verified fact on the one hand and mere rumor on the other. I can add to that by saying that I hope the people of this country; will also discriminate most carefully between news and rumor. Do not believe of necessity everything you hear or read. Check up on it first. You must master at the outset a simple but unalterable fact in modern foreign relations. When peace has been broken anywhere, peace of all countries everywhere is in danger.

It is easy for you and me to shrug our shoulders and say that conflicts taking place thousands of miles from the continental United States, and, indeed, the whole American hemisphere, do not seriously affect the Americas-and that all the United States has to do is to ignore them and go about our own business. Passionately though we may desire detachment, we are forced to realize that every word that comes through the air, every ship that sails the sea, every battle that is fought does affect the American future.

Let no man or woman thoughtlessly or falsely talk of America sending its armies to European fields. At this moment there is being prepared a proclamation of American neutrality. This would have been done even if there had been no neutrality statute on the books, for this proclamation is in accordance with international law and with American policy. This will be followed by a proclamation required by the existing Neutrality Act. I trust that in the days to come our neutrality can be made a true neutrality.

It is of the utmost importance that the people of this country, with the best information in the world, think things through. The most dangerous enemies of American peace are those who, without well-rounded information on the whole broad subject of the past, the present, and the future, undertake to speak with authority, to talk in terms of glittering generalities, to give to the Nation assurances: or prophecies which are of little present or future value. I myself cannot and do not prophesy the course of events abroad-and the reason is that because I have of necessity such a complete picture of what is going on in every part of the world, I do not dare to do so. And the other reason is that I think it is honest for me to be honest with the people of United States.

I cannot prophesy the immediate economic effect of this new war on our Nation, but I do say that no American has the moral right to profiteer at the expense either of his fellow citizens or of the men, women, and children who are living and dying in the midst of war in Europe.

Some things we do know. Most of us in the United States believe in spiritual values. Most of us, regardless of what church we belong to, believe in the spirit of the New Testament-a great teaching which opposes itself to the use of force, of armed force, of marching armies, and falling bombs. The overwhelming masses of our people seek peace-peace at home, and the kind of peace in other lands which will not jeopardize peace at home. We have certain ideas and ideals of national safety, and we must act to preserve that safety today and to preserve the safety of our children in future years.


That safety is and will be bound up with the safety of the Western Hemisphere and of the seas adjacent thereto. We seek to keep war from our firesides by keeping war from coming to the Americas. For that we have historic precedent that goes back to the days of the administration of President George Washington. It is serious enough and tragic enough to every American family in every State in the Union to live in a world that is torn by wars on other continents. Today they affect every American home. It is our national duty to use every effort to keep them out of the Americas. And at this time let me make the simple plea that partisanship and selfishness be adjourned, and that national unity be the thought that underlies all others.

This Nation will remain a neutral nation, but I cannot ask that every American remain neutral in thought as well. Even a neutral has a right to take account of facts. Even a neutral cannot be asked to close his mind or his conscience. I have said not once but many times that I have seen war and that I hate war. I say that again and again.

I hope the United States will keep out of this war. I believe that it will. And I give you assurances that every effort of your Government will be directed toward that end. As long as it remains within my power to prevent, there will be no blackout of peace in the United States.

 

That has been debated and discussed quite a few times here and it wasn't the "best".

 

The Teutonic Knight

 

Teutonic B.S.

 

Its really sad when someone's ignorance and bias clouds the facts continuously LOL. But it looks like he is outta here!!!!!

 

It was only a matter of time. Thread closed.