Sotomayor assails WWII Japanese-American internment

Bob, you apparently don't understand that the Courts, particularly, the
Supreme Court, are not infallible. As crises pass, and calm heads and
wisdom returns, or as societal standards evolve, we recognize that
SC decisions such as Plessy v. Ferguson and Korematsu v. U.S. are
fundamentally wrong and a betrayal of American ideals and values.

That is one of the sad lessons to be learned from the internment of
Japanese Americans.


Dave

 

"Fear" and "Race" had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese
Americans? This is analogous to saying that slavery had nothing to do with the American Civil War. It is completely nonsensical.


Dave

 

Bob, you apparently don't understand that the Courts, particularly, the
Supreme Court, are not infallible. As crises pass, and calm heads and
wisdom returns, or as societal standards evolve, we recognize that
SC decisions such as Plessy v. Ferguson and Korematsu v. U.S. are
fundamentally wrong and a betrayal of American ideals and values.

That is one of the sad lessons to be learned from the internment of
Japanese Americans.


Dave

Dave, Plessy vs Ferguson has nothing to do with Korematsu.

American ideals and values such as civil liberties can be temporarily suspended in a time of total war when our government through democratic vote declares a section of the country a war zone under military jurisdiction. Just because it hasn't happened since doesn't mean it won't happen again which is why Korematsu is still good law to this day.

I understand the courts, but I don't think you understand Japanese history very well.

 

"Fear" and "Race" had nothing to do with the internment of Japanese
Americans? This is analogous to saying that slavery had nothing to do with the American Civil War. It is completely nonsensical.


Dave

Ha! First Plessy vs Ferguson and now slavery. Korematsu had nothing to do with slavery, Dave.

I don't know of anyone who has studied the issue and concluded that the so-called "internment" was justified who denies that there was racial prejudice against resident Japanese aliens and Japanese Americans at the time of Pearl Harbor.

But the fact that racism existed doesn't mean that racism was the reason for the "internment. On the contrary, had "racism" been the reason for the "internment" why was it that the thousands of ethnic Japanese not living in the West Coast military areas were not bothered at all?

The reality was that there was an abundance of military intelligence which led to the decision to evacuate/relocate the West Coast Japanese for prudent military reasons.

It's all on the record and available for anyone to see. But unfortunately, many present-day critics of the "internment" persist in viewing WWII realities through the prism of their current socio/political agendas. As a result such ideologues have confused race with enemy nationality while remaining otherwise uninformed (and determined to remain so) about the military reasons behind the evacuation decision.

 

It is obvious to me, Bob, that you understand Japanese history better than
you understand American history, and what this country represents.


Dave

 

We have a saying that you can't see the forest for the trees. That certainly applies to your post.


Dave

 

This guy Bob Ulagsen is probably one smart cooky who could probably put me to shame in a debate so I'm not going to touch this one.

Also, this guy Bob Ulagsen is probably a troll out to cause trouble so my advice to everybody is to just ignore him.

Bob Guercio

 

It is obvious to me, Bob, that you understand Japanese history better than
you understand American history, and what this country represents.


Dave

Oh, I understand Japanese history. My American history is pretty good, too. I've learned not to hold strong opinions on topics about which I know little, though.

Do an internet search on the Japanese "Civilian Spy Service".

 

Wel said Bob, well said.

Best regards-C. 29 Reps left as my way of saying thanks ;-))

 

Also, this guy Bob Ulagsen is probably a troll out to cause trouble so my advice to everybody is to just ignore him.

Bob Guercio

Ha! No, I am not a troll.

Being new to this site, I searched this subject and a guy named "Clint" did a pretty good job getting it right.

http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/22977-japanese-american-internment-camps.html#post302870

How come defending America's military and political leaders during WW2 is considered causing trouble? I just think the men given the responsibility to wage war against two of the greatest armies to scourge the earth since Genghas Khan deserve a little more respect than being labeled "hysterical racists who lacked political will" 40 years after the fact by a bunch of new politicians lobbied by an ethnic grievence group.

Obviously after reading Senator Graham's comments and Judge Sotomayor's response, they still don't know the history - another fine example of why politicians should not be in the business of legislating history.

 

Judge judges case from ten
years before she was born.
Lack of more recent crime to blame.
WASHINGTON - In a move which may cheer up
bored newspaper editors with nothing better to
cover, a Supreme Court hopeful found a cheap
way to maintain her public profile without upset-
ing too many people.
"It's inconceivable to me that my name might not
be in the paper as much as I'd like, so it's good to
have a chance to rectify this situation." she said.
This is unlikely to be the last we hear from a judge
unlikely to be shy of addressing issues which most
citizens have never heard of, as well as attaching
her own pious views on the subject.
"Why should Michael Jackson get all the coverage?"
she asked, before adding: "It won't stop here, I've
already arranged to have my photo taken with Bono,
and next week I'll be addressing an issue which has
divided black and white communities for decades,
and settling once and for all the inherent racism
behind claims that Milli Vanilli couldn't sing."

 

Wel said Bob, well said.

Best regards-C. 29 Reps left as my way of saying thanks ;-))

Thank you!

 

Lets ask her parents how they felt about the Japanese after Pearl Harbor.

Seriously though, as terrible as it was to do it (and it was terrible), National security dictated that it had to happen! I'd expect them to make that decision all over again today if they had to.

 

Guys some intersting points have been made, but some dodgy ones too. So keep this going on a smart and gently way, as if it turns sour, I would have to close the thread. You have been warned.

 

Quite welcome and finally got to you for the post as well. I like that you also well explained your replies-so many do not take the time to do so. ;-))

Take care and best regards--C.

 

UC to grant WWII internees dagrees

UC to grant Japanese WWII internees degrees

 

But, of course, not a word about the jailing of German or Italian nationals or, in some cases American citizens; many for years after the war ended as well. I guess when you aren't a select minority group favored by the Left you don't count in their eyes.

 

But, of course, not a word about the jailing of German or Italian nationals or, in some cases American citizens; many for years after the war ended as well. I guess when you aren't a select minority group favored by the Left you don't count in their eyes.

German Americans on the east coast and throughout the country were arrested, interned, and in some cases deported. Almost 11,000 German Americans were interned in the U.S. during World War II. Many German Americans sat, worked, played and went to school in the same camps as their Japanese American counterparts.

Furthermore even before the first ethnic Japanese was interned, 600,000 Italian Americans and 300,000 German Americans were deprived of their civil liberties when they (all persons, male and female, age 14 and older) were required to register as "Alien Enemies." This registration entailed photographing, fingerprinting and the issuance of identification cards which the Alien Enemies had to have on their possession at all times. In addition they were forbidden: to fly; to leave their neighborhoods; to possess cameras, short-wave radio receivers, and firearms. Finally, these persons were required to report any change of employment or address to the Department of Justice.

That said, The Tolan committee looked very closely at the need to evacuate Germans and Italians from the West Coast combat zones, also.

It was learned that the vast majority of the German enemy aliens were Jewish Germans who had escaped Hitler's oppression starting in the early 1930's. The Italians were by and large illiterate farmers who had never gotten around to applying for citizenship.

After careful thought and discussion it was decided these people were not a threat to the West Coast combat zones to the extent the ethnic Japanese were a threat.

To argue there must be some kind of proportionality between Germans and Japanese because they both happen to be the enemy without acknowledging the extent of the security threat from ethnic Germans/Italians compared to ethnic Japanese was considered "overkill" by the military and political authorities.

As Justice Stone said in "Hirabayashi" (which dealt with the curfew):

“THE ALTERNATIVE WHICH APPELLANT INSISTS MUST BE ACCEPTED IS FOR THE MILITARY AUTHORITIES TO IMPOSE THE CURFEW ON ALL CITIZENS WITHIN THE MILITARY AREA, OR ON NONE. IN A CASE OF THREATENED DANGER REQUIRING PROMPT ACTION, IT IS A CHOICE BETWEEN INFLICTING OBVIOUSLY NEEDLESS HARDSHIP ON THE MANY, OR SITTING PASSIVE AND UNRESISTING IN THE PRESENCE OF THE THREAT. WE THINK THAT CONSTITUTIONAL GOVERNMENT, IN TIME OF WAR, IS NOT SO POWERLESS AND DOES NOT COMPEL SO HARD A CHOICE IF THOSE CHARGED WITH THE RESPONSIBILITY OF OUR NATIONAL DEFENSE HAVE REASONABLE GROUND FOR BELIEVING THAT THE THREAT IS REAL.”

Hirabayashi is still good law to this day, too.

 

Nicely done. One of the sadest incidents concerning the Italian-Americans was that of Joe DiMaggio. His father was forbidden by the travel restrictions placed on him from crossing the bay to watch his son play baseball when the Yankees came to San Fran. I know "rules are rules", but how much of a threat would there be at a baseball game.

 

Thanks, Clint. Nice post earlier, too. I provided a link to it.

I agree, the DiMaggio story is very sad. From my understanding, leaders in a time of total war have to make tuff decisions in a matter-of-fact way. They can't let emotion affect their decisions.

If I were Senator Graham I would have asked this:

"If a situation arises were American representative governement passes legislation granting full military authority to a war zone, should civilian government then place restrictions on what the military command of said zone believes is in the best interests to the defense of the United States?"

If so, then what's the point? I hear a lot about Civil Liberties these days, but don't hear much about it's twin brother, Civil Responsibility. These men had a civil responsibility to defend the United States of America in a time of total war - when America was losing the war.

Here is an interesting quote from the Tolan Commission on National Defense Migration made by Representative Carl Curtis of Nebraska March 7, 1942.

Mr. Curtis: May I say something right here. I don't believe anything will be gained by assuming that everyone who has to be evacuated is disloyal. These military decisions must be made upon the basis of the best judgement of those military authorities who are in charge. The rest of us will have to comply. It will be tuff, it will be cruel and there will be hardships.

Sherman had an old idea of what was war, but that was a long time ago and it is old-fashioned. But that is going to fall upon every American.

I live in a little town of 1,700 people. One of the car dealers there sells automobiles. He did sell automobiles, radios, washing machines and tires. His Government at Washington says, "You can't sell any of those things. You can't even buy them."

It so happens that that family has two sons in the armed forces and a third one about to go. Well, now, they are not sitting down at their supper table and talking about their liberties and their precious rights to do business and their precious things being taken away. It is one of those things that all of us are just going to have to take on the chin and like it.

(Rep. Curtis made this comment to Japanese American members of the United Citizens Federation.)