Guilt about SS memorabilia

Hello there all! Okay, for my first topic on this board I want to share a lil story. A while back my grand-uncle (is that an actual term?) gave me a small collection of German medals, mostly for things like Motherhood and the like but also a badge of the S.S., the infamous death's head.

Now, I have no clue whether it is authentic but that's not what I'm wondering. My girlfriend, when I explained what it was and who the Waffen-SS were was aghast. She said she didn't understand why I thought the badge of an organization responsible for mass killings was a great find.

Now, I am not a Neo-Nazi or skinhead. I am merely interested in military history but what she said left me feeling differently. Is it wrong to want to own things that once represented racism, hate, and murder?

What do y'all think? Would you personally buy SS memorabilia or not?

Thanks!

 

I think there is no problem owning SS memorabilia as long as you are not a neo-nazi etc. It is a piece of history.

We wouldn't have progressed as far as we have today if we just overlooked all of the "unfavorable" things from history.

 

I don't see any problem with it either. Its a part of history and should remain the way it is. I own a bit of Nazi items myself but own them as a collector not as a racist or a neo-nazi. There is a difference in preserving history and owning certain items to glorify what the true Nazis believed in.

If there weren't collectors out there or museums with these artifacts then history would eventually be lost. I don't think it should make you feel guilty or ashamed for owning it.

 

Col.P ... IMO, if your reasons are as you say, nothing more than an interest in military history, then I don't see a problem. Personally, I'm not a collector of memorabilia (Carl's your expert on that topic) but like everyone else here, I am interested in military history. The Waffen-SS are a part of that history ... A very disagreeable part, but a part none the less. The authenticity of your deaths head is a different matter, but I'm sure there are Rogues about who can point you in the right direction.

If it's any consolation ... My wife (She who must be obeyed) does'nt even understand why I spend so much time on this forum chatting about WWII and watching TV programs about "Hitler, Hitler, Hitler and the bl00dy Germans !!" It's 'par for the course' I think mate.

 

Col Pickle,
Nothing wrong with at all. If you don't believe in the philosophy of the SS and the Nazi party,then there's nothing wrong with it at all. Moreover, you might be helping (somewhere down the road) to perpetuate the memory of those who were murdered, and those who came to save the persecuted, by holding on to those trinkets. I think it's really important to be able to hold these things up and say "See?? It really happened". Far too many people dont know the history of this great task, and it is up to guys like you-and indeed the rest of us on this forum- to keep those memories alive.

My Sisters husband prides himself in his vast knowledge of not only history, but of pretty much anything else too. He'll tell you all about it without invitation or inquiry. He has taught his kids about WWII, ok? He taught them about Peral Harbor, Iwo Jima, and how the RUSSIANS beat the Germans at Bastogne........I rest my case.....

So please, please,please, explain it to your girlfriend, tell her that you are helping to educate the ignorant masses, and if that doesn work, get a new girlfriend..

P.S. were you Capt. cucumber before you got promoted?:lol:

 

Like others have said, if you don't believe in what they preached.

Being guilty wouldn't be right at all, because than tons of museums would have to feel guilty.

We shouldn't shade out an [important] piece of history, just because it represented something evil. As a collector, it's fine to buy things of the "opposite side" and feel proud of those items, as long as you aren't feeling proud of the things on those items.

 

Certainly nothing wrong with owning an item as a historical item. I have a few Waffen SS items in my tiny little militaria collection. My W-SS collection totals, three mint pairs of offiziers shoulderboards, two W-SS unit collartabs and one SS-Signallers Sleeve Diamond. I have some autographs including one of the last few that the last Commanding General of the 1st SS-Panzer Division (LAH) and a book signed by another Waffen SS Soldier/RKT/ good friend of mine till his passing away.

I don't idolize any of them but-I can tell you that the RKT/friend of mine definately was a top hero in my book. I was taller than he was by several inches-but I would sure as hell hate being any Russian Soldier hh had came into his gunsights. He might have been a bit short on heigth, but he sure was tall on bravery. Yes, this man I do speak highly of-had indeed been a member of the Belgian Nazi Party-but he did not force his (then) views on people who did not agree with anything and everything related to the nazi party. This man also knoe that I despised that organization and everything it stood for-but alos knew that I did not blame every person who had been a member-as being lumped in with the war criminals crowd.

I also knew adn still know, many WWII German Vets-some highly decorated-others not so highly adorned. However, one of these gentlemen in particular-who is also my best living friend in Germany, looks at me like I was his own Son-whom unfortunately-died as a result of a horrible traffic accident so many years ago. This vet also knows that I look at him as the Grandfather I never had the chance to know. Of course, there are many American vets and British vets, that I feel the same way about.

Sorry to stray but, I posted the above-as an example of why Ifeel the way I do, about WWII and the Germans. As for the militaria, I have been given items by some of the Vets I mentioned above-i.e. medals, their headgear and such. Somone mentioned that its ok to have these items as long as you don't have them for the wrong reasons. Would I go around in public wearing a T-shirt with the photo of a Messerschmidt fighter on it--yes I would. However, would I go around and wear a T-Shirt with Hitlers image on it? hell no.

Cheers and hope this gives you a bit more to go on?

 

absolutly hilarious!!

sorry Col.Pickle, no personal offence meant at all. I am retreating down into my cellar to continue

Shame on you Carl!! propably you would even trade an Imperial German award for some SS stuff.

Regards
Kruska

 

Carl ... Very well said, I knew you were the guy to set the lad straight.

Capt. cucum......Sorry, Col.Pickle (only joking) ... Have you considered posting some pics of your Militaria ?? There are quite a few Rogues (not myself) who are experts on such matters.

 

yes pics would be great!

 

militaria comes in many different forms,not all things of ww2 are ss but ss were a very significant part of it,and has a lot of interest,be it weapons/uniforms/awards/badges/helmets,all very collectable,and all for the historical past/period of time it came from,not in anyway something that represents you as odd for wanting to own such things,I myself have these things in my collection and only see them as collectables from ww2,no more! no less!....

 

I'll add a few thoughts to Carl's, as this is a subject well worth fleshing out. As has been pointed out, your memoriabilia is part of history. The fact that it is representative of a horrific part of human history does not change that. And while it is true that what you do with your memoriabilia is important, how you feel about it is even more important. You should feel uncomfortable about those pieces because of what they symbolize, just as most of us feel a degree of disgust and revulsion when we encounter SS artificacts in a museum. That does not mean that you should not keep your artifacts and learn from them and about them. Just keep them in your mind as symbols of something terrible and never let anyone suggest otherwise. They are not "cool" or "awesome." They are "terrible" and "dreadful," just as artifacts from the Indian Wars or the Jim Crow era are "terrible" and "dreadful."

There is nothing wrong with the way you are feeling. Just realize that if you continue to feel uncomfortable with your possessions, there are museums which will take them. Never try to sell them or give them to someone who will revere them as relics. Based on what you have already told us, I think they are in good hands now.

 

Hi Andy, that's a behind singer aint it? ;-D Seriously though, these could go for almost anything in trade. Thanks to Hucks, I was pointed to another great militara site which specialzes in paperwork. I spent a log time going through that site and also found a few Imperial Docs that I am greatly considering getting-not because they are special but I love the artwork on those I did see.

A few WWII examples I was thinking of possibly getting were award doc sets to a soldier who was KIA at Stalingrad, another doc set to a man who served at Stalingrad, and one to a men who was in a Special Purpoes Unit-(ala) a Penal Battalion-not by actual Straf name but by z.b.V.

 

Hello! A huge thanks to everyone who spent the time to respond so swiftly to my topic, you've really set my mind at ease. Glad to know I'm not the only one though one has felt a little queasy 'bout SS stuff but still wants to preserve it.

Also, shame on Keystone. When I read the Cucumber thing I spit water I was drinking all over my desk. First time I've heard that joke, I'll remember that if I ever have to make a new account

 

Hello Carl,

hmmm... so this Hucks is behind this, shame on him too

Enjoy all your collectables - documents can be very interesting too.

Regards
Andy

 

Nothing wrong as long as you don't agree with what they did. I have a cousin thru marrige who is Jewish, once he saw my collection of ww2 things while here at my home for a family cookout. I have a military room with things from ww1, ww2, korea and vietnam. My collection covers both sides in the different conficts. Goodguy and badguy. He was taken back that I have german stuff in my collection, which do include a few ss pins. He asked the same questions your girl did. He said his people were almost wiped out by the Nazies. Here was my answer, maybe it will help you. I told him that I was not ashamed to own or show these pins. I do not beleive in the views or actions of what they represented. They are just a part of history. I told him that when I do look at them that they remind me of how easy it is for us as human beings to forget the worth of another person's life, and at this point I shared my view of pro-life here in the U.S.. You see my cousin is pro-choice, and I have never challanged him on this, but he opened the door by his statement. I told him that this is something that the world should never have let happen to not just the Jews, but also all the other ethic groups of ww2, of whom the Jews were just a small part, who lost their lives in the german death camps. I shared my view with him that i did not beleive that, we as people in this world of today have any more right to take lives of babies than the Nazies had to take lives. I also told him that when other people come and see my collection and comment about the German stuff in my collection, that I tell them the same, as I just told him. So I look at them as more of a teaching aid, as to how even what seems like a good idea, can prove to be very wrong. My cousin and myself, have since this day, had many a hour of great talks about history and the short falls of mankind.

 

Such a find keeps history alive doesn't it? Out of the whole affair the bit which makes me aghast is how she didn't know anything about it.

And, no matter how snobbish it might make me sound, the opinion developed in the five minutes following her discovery are both naive and foolish, and as such quite worthless.

This equating collecting something with the politics & people behind it is over simplistic, increasingly common but quite a modern development. It's been mentioned here before, I remember one rather rude suggestion of how the fact that the US are big collectors of Third Reich items was because they're all fascists.

Total nonsense of course, but thanks to the web those of us who prefer facts in historical form have delightful little havens such as here.

cheers,

 

Tell her how much it's worth and she will leave you alone.

 

The Jews were not "just a small part". They were the number 1 target of the Nazis. 6 million dead, 1.5 million of whom were children. This out of a max of 12 million. How is 50 percent "a small part"?

 

What you should be asking yourself is: Why do I feel guilty for owning this?

The W-SS were one of the strangest orginisations of men in history and any history lover worth his salt would adore having some real life items!