Is it OK to collect Nazi memorabilia?

Ahhhhh Greek food. I'm from, and in Margate and historically we've a big Greek community, esp Cypriot, so I'm not a stranger to it, in fact elsewhere in the UK when I mention I'm from Margate I get bigger portions in Greek eateries.
Every January they have the blessing of the sea ceremony.


Apologies for derail of thread

 

Hi WOT, Greek food is great. My favorite item tried is one of their Gyro (SP?) Sandwiches. Another thing I love is their Cucumber Sauce-which its curiously strong-but tastes outta this world.

One thing the Greeks are known for world wide-is that they are great Restaurantuers ;-))

 

anyone ever think carl should geta job as a food/restraunt writer..

 

Ha ha, believe it or not? I actually though of becoming a Food Critic, but, i'd rather be a Movie Critic or a Militaria Critic ;-)) I'd fail at being a food critic because im as finicky as a Cat, when it comes to eating food. I can't stand most seafoods, as well as some other ethnic type foods. It'd be better if I were perhaps, a Restaurant Critic??? '-))

 

This story is still rumbling on.....now it's been given the full Sunday-colour-supplement treatment in todays' Sunday Times : -

Nazi scandal engulfs Human Rights Watch - Times Online

This guy sounds a really nasty piece of work - he collects Flak badges and self-published a book about them which he dedicated to his Grandfather who served in the Luftwaffe .

But - worst of all - 'by night' ( I love it ! ) he contibuted to 'internet forums' under the avatar 'Flak88'. 'The enthusiasts for Third Reich memorabilia who meet up in cyberspace make up a cosy little community' says the article.

Must say I had quite a chuckle reading it this morning.

Signing off now until darkness falls :

Obersturmbannfuhrer Bull.

 

I began collecting militaria as a child: We were, maybe all are, the children of war, aren't we? In the late 1950s it was a lot of American stuff stateside, and there was lots of interesting "war surplus". The German stuff attained a level of notoriety, especially into the early 1960s. It was a Hells Angel thing to do. And then-to paint Oakland Orange. But actually, there were some amazing things around then--the old uniforms, Blue Maxes, Civil War stuff. The German stuff took off like a dark horse thing--you learned to watch the back pages of the Shotgun News, and back then you could buy a good DAK pith helmet from the same outfit that carried good stuff right through the 1970s. There was good stuff it seemed right through the 1980s, when a lot of fakes appeared. Now it's a touch and go thing. I think they are committing barbarity all over by opening up all the old Ostfront.battlefields and graves for artifacts.

 

Lots of Nazi stuff, even a taste for wearing it onstage:


Definitely not a Nazi.

I know someone (in the online sense of 'know') who collects Nazi flags, from the largest banners to Pennants, and he's also one of the most vociferous and well-informed attackers of online Neos & Denialists I've encountered.
The simplistic equating of someone's collecting & their ideology is just plain wrong to my mind. It doesn't hold water.

And I'd guess there aren't that many Neos who can afford the stuff anymore anyway...
(I do sometimes wonder what Lemmy's collection is worth.)

~A

 

Nothing essentially wrong with collecting Nazi memorabilia. But, if you insist on collecting human skin lamp-shades and goulish furniture made from KZ camp inmates, then you have a problem explaining your motivation.

Collectors serve a useful purpose. They guarantee that something tangible survives from the period, something to prove to the deniers that it actually occurred. For this reason, lamp-shades and goulish furniture are probly explainable. But if you wish to display this collectable merchandise in a library full of books devoted to glorifying the Third Reich, then you'd better not let impressionable minds view your collection. They are most likely to get the wrong impression of your motivation and reasons for doing so.

 

Hehe Lemmie is the greatest. I've always wondered whehter "his" E.K. was a repro or not.

 

I don't see a problem with buying/selling nazi memorabilia but, like previous posters have stated, one has to be careful how one displays it. Obviously posting a picture on FB with a swastika flag clearly visible in the background would be a VERY bad idea. I do, however, think that certain items like human remains should not be collected, no matter who they came from.

However if it's weapons, flags, uniforms, etc then I personally would ask to see your collection. And if I was really impressed I'd get out my wallet or start talking trades.

 

Collect Nazi memorabilia ?

No real objection, as such.

The Third Reich and all it's attendant horrors was too big a part of modern history to be ignored or swept under the carpet and I can understand why some folk would find this period of much interest.

Wear Nazi memorabilia ?............. that's a completely different story and I believe I have made my position quite clear on this thread:
:
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/15098-an-open-letter-to-all-re-enactors-of-waffen-ss-units/

Ron

 

Surprisingly enough this issue did come up at several anime conventions. Many animes are set in the WW2 era. One huge example is the anime 'Hellsing'. The wish to 'cosplay' or portray some of the antagonists of the story has led several fans to collect WW2 nazi related memorabilia and to cosplay in costumes that include the totenkopf symbol as well as the swastika. By far the most controversial costumes worn by fans of this series have to be the schrodinger and 'captain' costumes. A hitlerjugend and a hauptsturmfuhrer from the SS, respectively.

A lot of people did weigh-in on the subject and there are many discussions on it throughout the internet. My question to you is this: do your opinions apply only to Nazi era reenactors or do you think that cosplayers and nerds should avoid wearing nazi inspired costumes as well? Some of the nazi inspired costumes are quite realistic (like the ones mentioned above) and some of them are certainly fanciful (like the 'Red Skull' from 'Captain America').

A lot of people who collect and/or wear nazi memorabilia are careful to remain prudent and show discretion when it comes to how they wear or display their items. In my experience, people who cosplay nazi inspired characters are no different.

 

It probably says much about my age group (90 plus) that I had to look up the word "Anime" before I could make sense of the preceding posting

Now that I understand, or at least I think I do, I am better fitted to answer Ladymage as to whether or not my dislike of re-enactors wearing SS type uniforms extends to Anime devotees.

Yes .......,,

Ron

 

Hahaha don't feel too bad. My mum doesn't understand it much either, and my dad is utterly clueless. It's a culture unto itself or 'subculture' as I've heard people call it. Even I don't understand some aspects of the subculture, which is rather hilarious because my friends used to often tease me for misusing certain subculture related slang words.

What I have seen is people omitting certain symbols such as the totenkopf or the swastika. For reenactors who want to portray nazis, I can see why they would be reluctant to omit things such as the armband or other symbols. For anime fans, who aren't as concerned with historical accuracy, this is a viable option. For instance, I've seen pictures where one girl designed an armband that was still red and white but had a picture of the anime's main villain on it in place of the swastika.

I personally don't mind people who reenact in nazi uniforms or those who cosplay in said uniforms, because I know that they are not 'bad people' so to speak. I tend to hang around folks that have 'zero tolerance for hatred and intolerance'. But like I said, it all comes down to discretion. Whether you think someone should wear the uniform or not you should agree with this:

You have to be really careful, especially around more ignorant people. Unfortunately some people will automatically think you to be evil upon seeing your flag collection or your uniform, even if you are one of the nicest people ever. It all comes down to discretion but it is a sad fact of life that people do make harsh and cruel judgments on other people based on appearances. It's not always 'fair' or 'right' but it is a reality.

 

I came across this article and thought that it may be of interest to some:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/dickdelingpole/100196324/is-it-acceptable-for-second-world-war-re-enactors-to-dress-in-nazi-uniforms/

 

Ladymage

Thanks for the link to the Telegraph article.

I have added it to the discussion that is also, as we speak, taking place on the ww2talk site
http://ww2talk.com/forums/topic/51755-anime-hellsing-one-lives-and-learns-even-at-90/#entry606941

Ron

 

We are talking about two different things here. Re-enactors wear NEW uniforms and "play" war . Collectors usually collect genuine relics only (unless there is one spare they cannot get and get a repro objet until they ge tthe real thing) . Also regarless the origin of the uniform , I would never ,ever wear one. They are valuable historical objets and sometimes unique, not toys.

 

I actually have a couple of items of Nazi symbolism that were passed down from my grandfather that he had taken off a dead Junker Luftwaffe pilot, that his group helped shoot down. And I love those items! Why? Not because it's Nazi but because of the historical relevance. So I say go for it if it's a passion of yours to collect WW2 memorabilia.

 

Ladymage, You have three different concepts. A collector looks to create a group of artifacts that possess historical significance. Usually to preserve them for posterity, yes sometimes they take it too far and collect things that are just too macabre or insensitive or because they have a perverse fetish, but most collectors are primarily motivated by a love of history.

Re-enactors generally are interested to promoting history as well by making it come to life in real time for those who view them. Again some probably get a kick out of looking "bada$$" in their cool uniforms and carrying menacing weapons, but then again I saw this in people dressed up as Imperial "Stormtroopers" or Klingon's at Sci-Fi conventions.

The thing is that the Cosplay you mention isn't about history but entertainment (like the Sci-Fi conventions) only we here are not talking about purely fictional characters. but ones based upon real life villain's. Villains who still have victims alive today or their children who grew up with a great void in their lives. To them this seems disrespectful, trivializing their anguish. Not unlike the Royal Prince caught in a Nazi uniform for a party a few years back.

There is an old saying "I can't define pornography, but I know it when I see it". This is true about images and acts that are offensive also I fear.

For some of us dinosaur's this sort of thing will always make us uneasy and the inability of others to understand this feeling only seems to widen the gulf between us.