Its come to my attention that a very few here are not treating all Veterans equally.

As a side note for both Mehar and Suzie. Meher, yep, some WWII German Vets have posted on other sites like Feldgraui-the one im thinking of served in the Grossdeutschland Division. I can't think of his name off-hand but he was a regular posting member of that site for years. I THINK some have also posted on Marcus Wendels site??--Axis History Forums. I saw them post on German Language sites before-but even there they were few and far in between.

Suzie, if you want soem contacts of WWII Allied and Axis Vets? please let em know as I have addresses for men from both sides of the battlelines ;-))

Hi Tomcat, thank you and I know you would o your best to help out ;-)) Ill do my best and see if I can get a few to look in on us but I can't guarentee anything.

Take care Mate--C

 

It makes me literally sick to my stomach to think about how some gents might be put off from the forum because of a few undesirables! Its a good thing that they are shown the door not long later.

I hope that you can persuade a couple of them to join Carl!

 

"shown the door"? What does that mean?

Carl: Thanks for the recommendations, will have to pay those places a visit shortly.

 

Most people who come in with some sort of Arrogance and ignorance usually are found "dishonorably discharged" not to long after. It is a very well working process and it does cut down drastically on the Neo-Nazi problem.

 

I whole heartedly agree with the idea behind this thread. Each year, more and more vet's pass away and it would be incredible if we could actually meet some German veterans here on this board. It would be a priveldge and make this forum an even more remarkable place and attract also more historians and authors to this site even.

And if the moderators want to exercise more power and kick a few people here and there for the sake of moderation and discipline - I think that would be good if it helps attract more people to the forum.

Not to drag the thread off topic, but I should further add that I've been an internet cat for many years and have visited many military forums and so I've seen a lot of post and threads that had raw visceral reactions - that were rude and even uncalled for. For example, there was a son of a German veteran asking for some information about a certain unit - and all of a sudden people were writing all sorts of rude and nasty comments on the guy and trying to make him apologize for the past. Which I thought was utterly ridiculous! The guy was there asking for information and that was all. He wasn't a soldier, he wasn't the one who did "X, Y, Z", he wasn't even born at the time even.

It's incredible that people think that they can right past wrongs by blaming and degrading the decendants of those they have a grudge against.

 

Great thread, I've been hoping for somethong like this for long time but never dared to open the subject as it's bound to be very sensitive.

Congrats to Carl for doing it (though I too missed the incriminated posts).

Unfortunately I must agree with skipper the chances of attracting a veteran are low, demographics and language barriers are against us. But provided if the right climate exists it's often possible to attract the "next generation" that sometimes have treasure troves of memories and documents collected from their fathers but will shy off if confronted with a "German bashing" attitude.

Best of luck to the mods for navigating these very dangerous waters, if we are so lucky to attract some axis veterans we are bound to sooner or later run into the infamous "the only good indian is a dead indian" attitude from someone who has a legittimate grudge. As I live in Europe I've seen this happen in real life more often than I like to remember and it's a real conversation killer. Compared to that "second hand nazis" are a trivial problem, you know where you stand with those.

 

TOS, one must be careful when using quotes. That Phil Sheridan "dead indian" line is an example. It isn't totally false or anything, just turned around a bit to sound more nefarious than it was in actuality. Remember, Sheridan had been in the "west" fighting in the Indian Territories before the Civil War broke out, and his opinion of them was a bit "slanted" to say the least.

In January, 1869, General Sheridan held a conference with 50 Indian chiefs at Fort Cobb in the so-called Indian Territory (later part of Oklahoma). At that time, Sheridan, who had gained recognition as a Union officer in the Civil War, was in charge of the Dept. of the Missouri. One of his duties was to oversee the Indian Territory, making sure that the Indians remained on their reservations and did not harass the white settlers.

When Comanche chief Toch-a-way was introduced to Sheridan at the conference, the Indian said, "Me Toch-a-way, me good Indian." Sheridan reportedly smirked and replied, "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead." Later on, the remark became "The only good Indian is a dead Indian."
　
See:

Trivia on Origins of Sayings - The Only Good Indian is a Dead Indian | Trivia Library

 

Good job Carl, you Texans call it as you see it.

I am of 100% German ancestry, yet my uncle was KIA by the Germans while fighting in France !! He was an American, fighting for America, while serving with the 36th Texas ID.

Kesselring, Rommel and any number of German Generals were excellent leaders.

ANY infantry soldier at Salerno, Cassino, Anzio, or where ever they fought deserves our respect, Allies or Axis.

 

What two posters..what two posts...innuendo is as bad as the original crime if it is baseless. mods police this forum surely..not members.

 

Didn't know that, thanks. But that "quote" is so useful to describe the mindset of those who after having fought an enemy are then unable to see them otherwise that it will probably never be corrected.

Any war, especially a brutal and protracted one like WW2, leaves some of them, they are otherwise perfectly respectable, and sometimes very likeable, persons. But it's wise to avoid some subjects with them.

If you ever found found yourself in a social occasion and suddenly realized that you are in the same room with former fighters from opposing sides, and people who lost civilian relatives as "collateral damage", you will get my meaning. You just hope nobody mentions our favorite discussion subject as just one person with that mindset will spell disaster, but that's not an option here.

 

I understand that concept completely. My own Father fought in the ETO, as a pilot with Transport Command and when he first returned from the theater to instruct other pilots in the C-47's delights and weaknesses, he had little use for any German. Soldier or civilian. That didn't last long however, as too many people in Montana have northern European and Germanic stock in their backgrounds.

Then after my own Mom passed away in the early '70s he married one of her best friends (and bridge partner) whose own husband had also lost his battle with cancer too. My Step-Mom was a little girl in the Holstein district during the war years, I think she was 12 or 13 when the war ended, her father was a card carrying Nazi, but that said a kinder and nicer lady I have never met.

She got over her dislike of Americans who had bombed her homeland when she was just a little girl, and my Dad obviously got over his distaste for the German peoples.

 

These are excellent examples of not judging or stereotyping. Most Americans seem to think that the German people had a choice but in reality, they did not. Not many countries of the time had the same freedoms as we did. We can hate the government but not the people.

Another example, lets take the Vietnam war. Many of the soldiers who fought there did so because they were drafted. They had no easy choice. They were doing what their government asked them to do. Yet, they were called baby killers not just by the Vietnamese but also by Americans back at home. If history judges the Vietnam war to be wrong, do we then ridicule the soldiers who fought it? Horrible atrocities were commited in large numbers, so do we blame all of the soldiers?

The German and Japanese people were living in a culture way different from America. There was a sense of loyalty to individuals because of the monarchs that led their respective countries. We did not. We could say no, they could not...at least not without consequences. Their leader asked them to jump and they did...without question because that is how they were raised. You can't defend your freedom when you are not aware of those freedoms. How many true republics were in existence during the 40's?

Either way, we should show respect to everyone.

 

We are getting a touch off topic again, but it is rather amazing just what the ratio of draftee to enlisted was in the Vietnam era, contrary to the memories of many people; most who served there were NOT drafted into the services, and most of the troops were Caucasian, not African-American. And not all who were drafted served in 'nam, in fact less than 40% of those drafted even went to Southeast Asia.

27 million men came of draft age from 1964 to 1972

Total draftees (1965-1973): 1,728,344

Percentage of draftees who actually served in Vietnam: 38%

25% (648,500) of total forces in country were draftees (In WWII, 67% were draftees; 33% were volunteers)

Draftees accounted for 30.4% (17,725) of combat deaths in Vietnam

National Guard: 6,140 served; 101 died

Last man drafted: June 30, 1973

88.4% of the men who actually served in Vietnam were Caucasian: 10.6% (275,000) were African-American; 1% belonged to other races

86.3% of the men who died in Vietnam were Caucasian (includes Hispanics); 12.5% (7,241) were African-American; 1.2% belonged to other races.

86.8% of the men who were killed as a result of hostile action were Caucasian; 12.1% (5,711) were African-American; 1.1% belonged to other races.

70% of enlisted men killed were of Northwest European descent

14.6% (1,530) of non-combat deaths were among African-Americans

34% of African-Americans who enlisted volunteered for the combat arms

Overall, African-Americans suffered 12.5% of the deaths in Vietnam at a time when the percentage of African-Americans of military age was 13.5% of the total population.

79% of the men who served in Vietnam had a high school education or better when they entered military service. (63% of Korean War vets and only 45% of WWII vets had completed high school upon separation).

See:

Vietnam War Statistics

 

I do not see how my example was off topic and I was not debating statistics as I did not present any nor brought up any ethnic comparisons. My point was those who were drafted or even those available to be drafted had not choice but to serve upon request. As history has shown, those who were drafted did serve and did their duty just as those Axis soldiers did. They showed up and follow the orders as given by their leaders.

 

Not you Sir, I was going off topic a bit further than you. Just to remind others that the demographic of the Vietnam vets is many times mis-remembered.

 

Ha, I gotta get my eyes checked or perhaps it the differences in language between Texas and the US. BTW, thanks for the stats, that was very interesting and enlightening.

 

As to topic id still like to know what if anything is behind this flurry of posts. Or do we have a kangaroo court on the go against someone here..never a pretty site and in itself quite ugly too.

 

Let me add to my earlier response.

As a much younger man in 1979, I worked for a family owned tool distributor.

It was owned by a Jewish family.

The Director Of Advertising was an British man that flew with the RAF in WW2.

The Director Of Specialty Applications was a Whermacht Soldier in WW2.

I was a Salesman. We all worked in the same room and did our jobs well.

In America !!!! Good Ole' St Louis.....

Happy Holidays To All !!

 

Hi all, and when I get to a faster computer, ill address everything since my last post.

For Urgh, the two individuals names I have not released mainly to keep the forums free of more negativity as well as a promise I made to a couple of Mods in that I will try to jump the gun a bit less and let them handle things. I posted this topic because of people coming to me (which im so honored) and were looking for help to address a problem which is an irritating problem to say the least.

Anyway, some folks here being here a short time-or relative short time, came to me for (for lack of better words) a bit of help in addressing an issue important to them as well as it seems-to the vast majority of good folks here. Im mor ethan glad to address an issue that needed to be addressed. I would do the same if I saw or if it were brought to my attention, that if a few people here decided to "kick" around our vets too-meaning American and those from the U.K. and such-as they fully have the rights to participate here and I am thankful for every-one-of-them.

I would love to have some WWII German and Axis Veterans here and would love to see their interacting with our Vets. That one thing, has always been something I have hoped for-to happen here. I guess I am lucky in that with all the American and Allied Vets I have been friends with over the years and still are with the living ones now, that they all have no problem with what I am doing and are trying to do. In other words, they are perfectly OK, with my association and work, with Vets from non Allied nations. Heck, several years ago, a WWII American Vet contacted me here-to help him find the German Soldier who captured him during the Battle of the Bulge, and who wound up saving his life from being taken by some jerko Waffen SS personnel. The German who saved this GIs life-did so by faking taking into the nearby woods and faking executing this Americna soldier, and later that day, found him in the place he told the GI to hide in, and they continued walking for a few days, until the German Soldier could drop him off at some PoW collection point. These men in that time, became friends. Well, to make a long story short, I told this American vet that finding this guy woul be like finding a particular needle in a field full of haystacks full of needles. This Gent couldn't remember the mans full name but did remember where his hometown was, adn I was able to find this German vet, because he happened to have still lived in that same town that this American Vet remembered the name of.

almost 60 years after he was captured, teh American vet was reunited with his former enemy-turned friend. They spent the next few years going back-n-fourth visiting each other here and in Germany until the German vet passed away. Ill always cherish this Veterans thanks to me-for reuniting him with a person that was most important to him. It felt great to have the thanks of a WWII Veteran. Sadly, I have learned from this vets Son, that he had passed away about a year after the German Vet had.

Another couple of cases in point-about WWII Vets being thankful to me for making them happier in the end-this time-were German Vets.

1) The daughter of a WWII German Uboat Vet contacted me here to ask for help in getting her Father in touch with some of his Comrades. This man served on U 181-and as soon as I got this request, I got him in touch with my best german vet/friend-Karl Kaiser-and they were really surprised that Herr Kortz-had survived the war. They had thought he had died at sea-if I recall corrrectly? Anyway, I played a tiny part in making several WWII Vets happier for a time-but all credit has to go to Herr Kortes Daughter and to Herr Kaiser ;-))

Another and slightly earlier example was when I was contacted here-by the Grandson of another U 181 Vet-(Franz-Josef Hawran) and Herr Hawrans request was for me to send him a photo or two of those I took at their reunion in Bad Camber. I sent him a copy of all the photos I took-I guess about 30? or so? and Herr Hawrans Grandson contacted me shortly after and told me that his G/F was going blind but, that I made him very happy because he got to see photos of many of his Comrades again. Sadly, shortly after he recieved those photos, he went blind and then passed away not long after. It gave me a great feeling that I played a tiny part in making a Veterans last few weeks a bit of a happier time for him. It's doing things like this for Veterans-that gives me a total charge out of life ;-))

One thing I HOPE to have said about me when im gone-is that I cared. If that's all that can be said about me-so be it-its all that matters.

Anyway, il try to get back her tomorrow to be a bit more personal in reply. Thanks again for the support and in keeping this thread posiive.

Best regards-Carl.