Records still classified?!

Hello all, this is my first post. i found this site on google while trying to find service records for my grandad.

I have recently been given his diary, photo album and other things he has aquired / collected and documented during the 2ww. sadly he is no longer with us (15 years ago he died) however my mother passed these things to me as part of a clear out.

i have already gone through the process of requesting records via the RAF however i have limited information which took a few letters before i recieved the final one back declining any info as his details are 'classified'. im not sure why? i would have thought most things would have been declassified by now.

since then i have been 'googling' based on what i do know for missions or postings to see if anything was classified or there were any classified missions at the time.

my gradand was in the RAF Intelligence. yet went to egypt then south africa on a ship. part of the largest naval convoy of the war. HMS illustriaus etc. all i know is that he was in egypt for a long time and would never talk about it. his diary documents more of the journy down then documented later of his trip to south africa while on leave for a day or two.

thanks for the help

 

I cannot be of any help actually, but holding records for a hundred years if they may influence "history" are not an uncommon position. Those involved in "intel" might even fall into a more restictive level in both the UK and the US.

This stuff you are curious about may or may not become available for the general public before the middle of this century. There might well be a "good reason" for it.

 

part of your problem is what you mentioned in your last line i.e. RAF intel

my own Grandfather was in US intel hiding away in Latvia during the war right under the German noses. is there anything about his type or service with his unit written ? most probably, is it accessible.......NO and for good reason(s)

some things even 60 plus years ago still must be kept under lock and key.

 

thanks for the help guys. i will have a propper look through all i have tomorrow. however his diarys are more personal than military. all i know is the ship he was on (will add this tomorrow) i dont know the unit. just that its RAF Intel. my mum also knows very little since he would never talk about it. it may be one of thos 'too late' or forgotton storys.

i will update later. any more info or suggestions, please post.

Thanks

 

I thought id have a quick look at wikipedia to read about RAF intelligence.

RAF Intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

seems it was formed in 1939 but a break away called SIS. i remember as a kid seeing some kind of broach with SIS on. it was in a box with some shrapnel and gold buttons off a uniform. i dont know if this is coincidcence. either way it seems RAF Intel may be still classified or atleast some things are.

 

SIS is the Secret Intelligence Service, the true name of MI6. And although it is staffed almost exclusively by civilians these days the "MI" in MI6 stands for "Military Intelligence".

As others have mentioned here getting access to information even from 60+ years ago will be difficult to impossible. The information might no longer be sensitive but how it was obtained (sources and methods) could very well be.

 

thanks guys. ill gather some info tomorrow and post back

 

The fact that he was in Intelligence shouldn't affect access to his service record. All personnel records from WW2 relating to British service personnel (RN, Army, RAF) are still closed. This has more to do with privacy laws than the Official Secrets Act. As next of kin you can apply for a record. See:

Service records - RAF

I have assisted several people in applying for records of people who were in military intelligence. In each case the record was supplied.

 

Paul this may just depend on the individual and how far up let's just say "the food chain". personal records are a maybeas to how the person may be intermingled with certain operations still classified but again I must point out the association with my own Family in the US could be different than those seeking assistance in the UK, Germany and elsewhere.

 

thanks paul. i may require you helop if possible once i have done a little more digging.

 

In UK RAF records he will have a personnel file that is not intermingled with any other records. While MOD might not release all of the information in it, I believe they are obliged to if you are direct next of kin.

My advice would be to contact your local MP if you don't get anywhere with MOD.

 

Thanks for that - when you say direct next of kin... what do you mean? im his grandson. my mother is his daughter.

 

I have spoken to my mum who tells me he was in SIS. apparently he used to dress as a Egyptian / Local - disguise and go into there camps looking for arms - this is all he spoke about. i will get his unit details shortly, she thinks she has the details somewhere.

UPDATE

Can only find his number 1482874
i dont know the unit but was discharged from weeton.

 

I think your mother would have to apply. Wife or children is considered direct next of kin by MOD.

 

Thanks again. i have found a memo that he has written on the back of saying it was on the news wall for people to read. its addressed to RAF 11th squad and RAF 52 Squad. but he cant of been in any of these.

 

jug..can you be specific on unit such as an su or comms unit..met unit etc. All can fall under raf int umberella. As sommercourt points out..his general service should still be followable but not details of int jobs..pv-s etc. But if we have a parent unit / trade group with locations it wont be too difficult to associate speculate. pm me if you get into any tech word difficulties

 

looks in similar appearence to the Geramn WaST, next of kin is now required to obtain any type of service record even if it only contains a one line sentance.

I wish you all the best in your endeavors.

E ~

 

i may have to scan some of the stuff in, there are alot of baggage tags from when he ended up on the hospital ship.

on this it has asked for regnt, number, rank and name. but he only filled out the name and number.

i do know which ship he sailed down to cairo on as this is in his diary. this might help?

 

jugganort

What it says is that the SIS also set up an Air Intelligence section - it was not a "break away" from RAF Intelligence.

I'm not entirely sure that SIS broaches would be produced - rather defeats the secret nature of the organisation.

Richie

 

yeh i may be imagining it, i do remember an RAF broach with some stuff on. i think when you remember back its not to vivid and you imagine stuff you want to be there perhaps.

hopefully with help from you guys i should be able to find out.