Any chance of Hitler-Stalin pact in 1942?

I’ve read the next:

Was this true? Stalin really wanted a deal with Hitler in 1942?

I guess it was just propaganda. Wasn´t it?

 

Ricky Saunders: Inside the Stalin-Hitler Deal (February 1948)

 

OK, The 38'deal it's well konwn, but I'm asking about 1942, after Barbarossa

In trent Park, Von Thoma comented about the posibility of a deal with Stalin before Stalingrad.

I guess it was nazi´s propaganda to keep the men fighting an impossible war.

 

I think it was some German channels looking for a "way out" working independently like Himmler did in 1945. Hitler himself had refused any other kind of result for the war than victory for Germany, no peace until that.

 

One could well say then that the only thing keeping the German soldier fighting was not "unconditional surrender", but rather, "unconditional victory"

 

Pretty unlikely.

Let us consider the two personalities first.

Both are dictators, i agree.

The difference is that while Hitler dictated earlier with the will of the German people reeling under the shame of ww1 and the great depression, Stalin outright did not give a "hoot in hell" for the opinions of whom he ruled over.

Statics remained just statics and not hearts beating.

Hitler knew he would be endangering his reich when he opened war on Russia.

However the fault of Stalin was, though he was aware of Hitlers intentions, he could not accept the same. So when skirmishes started during the operation, he thought that the Germans were trying to provoke them into attacking first.

When the death knell fell, Stalin was shocked.
It was no longer two countries fighting, rather it was the will of two dictators, whose pride was liable to be hurt.

Two proud tigers..

After the back stab only a fool would offer a treaty.
Stalin was the last guy i would think of offering it.

Hitler had started it, now he would have to finish it.
His offensive that failed, gave the Russians a chance to counter attack and take the war to Berlin.
A chance that Stalin could not have missed

Atleast's that's my view on it.

Humbly waiting for corrections if any.

Regards,
TBA

 

It seems that Liddel Hart claims that Ribbentrop and Molotov met in Kirovograd June 1943
( History of the Second World War. 1970 ), but not much other evidence about that. Interesting idea though....

The Spectre of a Separate Peace in the East: Russo-German 'Peace Feelers', 1942-44 | DeepDyve - Research. Rent. Read.

 

In "The Russian Front" (edited by James Dunnigan),there is the following on P 13 (but,WITHOUT any source):
Von Ribbentrop and Molotov,the foreign ministers of Germany and Russia,met to discuss peace.
Hitler insisted on the Dnepr line as the boundry.
Stalin wanted the pre-war boundries .And,on that, peace foundered .


The date of the meetinf would be before operation Citadelle .

 

The Russian "yellow" press the possibility of negotiating Stalin and Hitler during the WWII was discussed many times.
My opinion - this is fiction.
The most difficult situation in Russia was in November 1941. It needed the help of allies by any price. But even in this time Molotov, in talks with Eden for help allies, insisted on keeping the borders of Russia as of 1939, and was not going to make any concessions. In 1942, Stalin, during the meeting with Churchill in Moscow, also discussed the post-war Europe. At this time, he was more convinced that Hitler be defeated. He had nothing to negotiate with Hitler.

 

It is also mentioned that : During the "Goerlitz talks" December 18-20 1942, Hitler would have revealed for the first time publicly at a conference, and in answer to the Italian view that a separate peace with Russia must be explored, that the Japanese government had approached the German government earlier in the year with a similar proposal. " Hitler´s words were: " Some time ago the question wsa raised by Japan as to whether it was not possible to reach agreement with the Russians on a workable basis."

from "The brutal friendship" by F.W.Deakin

There is no mention of Hitler´s answer though...

 

In the end a 1942 peace floundered on the reality that both Hitler and Stalin were stubborn, cheap bastards (excuse my french). Hitler wanted peace, but was unwilling to pay the price of giving up any land he already captured. Stalin wanted his land back without paying the price to retake it by force.

Clearly there seemed to be a deal to be made here if either party could look long term.

I suspect that Stalin would have accepted a return to Russia's pre September 1939 border in exchange for peace. Germany would still retain all of Poland and perhaps the Baltic states, or at worst they become pro German neutrals. Rumania get their eastern provinces back and Finland gets its original border. Perhaps Russia resumes oil shipments to the Reich.

Why is this good for Germany?

By early-mid 1942 German casualties have been serious, but not yet crippling. This is also true of equipment as well. The summer of 1942 Germany still has some measure of control over its fate, by the winter of '42 this will largely be gone.

The Reich still have their northern conquests (Denmark, Norway), their western conquests (Holland, Belguim and France), the southern conquests (Yugoslavia, Greece) and in the east, Poland and the Baltic states. Not too shabby by any means.

Finnland and Rumania would have to remain in the pro German camp if the hoped to retain the land they got back.

Hitler can claim he had pushed back the communist hoards and saved western Europe. In any event the German people and Hitler's generals will be glad to be out of Russia.

Germany can now devote the time and resources needed to protect its western empire.

What does the Soviet Union get?

By the summer of 1942 the war is hurting Russia more than Germany, and the Reich still has the initative. Victory is still far from certain. The victories of 1943 will cost as much to Russia as to Germany, and those of '44 and '45 will be dearly bought as well.

Russia regains a vast amount of her land back without cost in lives and treasure and can claim he successfully held of the invader and saved Mother Russia.

Germany will still be at war with England and her new ally the United States. The cherished communist dream of the western democracy's destroying one another would be fulfilled.

If the Allies fataly weaken Germany, Russia can still swoop in and gobble up the Baltic's and Poland.

If Germany is able to hold off the Allies it will take years if not a decade for the Reich to recover enough to once again threaten Mother Russia, and by the Mother will be ready for them.

The west was fortunate that niether tyrant was very reasonable in this matter.

 

Recently, I have read the memoirs of General Sandalov. I think I have known one of the reasons for the rumors of possible talks of Hitler and Stalin in 1942.
The fact that, in memoirs of General Sandalov is describing an interesting case. In April 1942, the post of commander of the 48 th Army was appointed general Samokhin. Prior to that, Samokhin was a member of the Main Intelligence Department. Before the war he was head of the military attache in Yugoslavia. So, having received the appointment, General Samokhin got on a plane and flew to the headquarters of the army, wich was in town Elec. But in the end, due to pilot error, his airplane flew across the front line, was damaged and lended near the town of Mtsensk, which had been occupied by the Germans. As a result, a former intelligence officer, having several important documents (including the directive to the Supreme Command of the preparation of the offensive) was captured so stupid. However, after the war he was not shot but only convicted and later exonerated.
In this story a lot of incomprehensible and mysterious. One version of the modern historians of the following: General Samokhin has a mission to Stalin - try to begin negotiate about a separate peace.
As I wrote above, I do not support this version. I think, it's just a silly misunderstanding. Like what happened in 1940 with the Germans, who were carrying secret plans to invade Holland, and by mistake landed in Belgium, where they were arrested.