Todays Germany needs to reconcile?

Hello Heinrich,

very good post indeed - just one small ? on my part.

Certainly you know your country better then I do. I have the feeling that Nazism/Rightwing culture in Europe is almost entirely directed towards Foreigners, immigrants/illegals in regards to economic aspects and some Muslim agitation comes into it.. Whilst in Germany the Rightwingers differentiate in regards to the Nazis who are still hanging on to racial believes and its all the jews fault - so lets finally get rid of them and all the other Hitler blabla.

What do you think?

Regards
Kruska

 

Its true that euro nazism on the western borders is about fear of islam ,or rather the huge problems second generation of moroccan immigrants (the children born here ) are creating by refusing to integrate into society .
Politics have ignored it a long time but at the moment its the nr1 thing that is polarizing our political climate so rapidly .
were facing a brand new political party who are joining elections for the first time and are expected to become the countries nr1 or nr2 party !!

The traditional socialists , the christen democrats and the liberals , they are all expected to take huge losses ..elections will be on the 9th of june 2010 and will be historic as we never faced something like this before . If youre into politics its a very weird situation and must be a very interesting 'thing' to study..in a way even very similar to 1939 !
The bad economy at the moment only speeds up the tiredness of people with the usual political correctness and im afraid that will show big in the elections outcome ...

A politician like Mr. Wilders is very good in appalling to societies gut feelings , saying the things people on the street like to hear (without any well calculated sane plans to fund their ideas btw).
France and Belgium are facing the exact same scenario , Switzerland more of less ,not shure what their 'scene' is there , first hand integration problems or just fear of the expanding muslims in theory??
Poland and Hungary is again another scene ,much more the pure nationalism and classic antisemitism old skool.

Now before all our muslims climb in the pen , its not so that most Dutch are all in a sudden massively fed up with muslims,but its used by populist politicians as an easy weapon against the big and indecisive parties that failed to handle the integration of the second generation immigrants children for a long time .
But that there really is something going very wrong with young moroccan peoples integration in our society may be obvious and this is happening in the same way in Belgium and France with second gen Moroccans again as the largest problem group.
Many simply reject our western way of living and start a antisocial and often criminal carreer wich has become a (organised?) plague too many people face daily on the streets ..why is a cultural thing very much related to Moroccan culture i guess ??

But whatever the reason , no state can allow street terrorism and it should be stopped and simply cannot be tolerated anymore. ,we all agree on that

Its obvious no one believes its just a little group of bad apples like all the large political parties have been stating for 20 years long already , its a much bigger and complicated story than that and thats why theres such a massive NO to the whole existing political scene , as they all avoided handling the problem being very afraid for loss of votes and being called political incorrect ..
with the effect they are all seen as liars now .. its a weak point were democracy as a system is failing im afraid .


Footnote: i didnt write anything about turkish people as the problems do not come from them even though being the greatest group of muslim immigrants here. If there ever were voices against them they have gotten undersnowed in recent years .
Maybe in the 70 ies people had their thoughds about the 'strange' newcomers , but thats something of the past now , Turks have integrated very well and maintained their identity proving it is very well possible to be a proud true muslim in a western country without forgetting their identity .An so did Surinams ,Indonesians and many many more living here today .

 

Well said and I couldnt agree more with what Ange (formerly known as Andy ;-))) and what Suzie and a couple of others posted.

 

Hello Heinrich,

maybe the answer and cause of the present problem lies in your last lines. It took the Italian, Greek, Yugos and Turks somewhere from 20-35 years to get adapted to German customs and as such to be integrated into society.
The present "problematic" groups are just about 5-10 years now in Germany - or Holland? and seem to have to go another 15-20 years as the groups before them.

Strange enough - the biggest concern to Germany are actually the so called Russian-Germans.

Regards
Kruska

 

talking with relatifves in GErmany and the yo8unger set as well the older gneeration - aka WW 2 would rather just not talk of it, still too much bitterness at a host of individuals and to me the denial of what really happened in some respects, the younger 20 and younger somethings really do not care about what has happened in the past. cannot say I blame them, they have had the west rebuilt, things are good though the worlds leaders would say otherwise, why bother with what happened in their books long ago, life is good go out and enjoy it. ah but sadly a funny thing history has the tendantcy to repeat itself too often

 

Modern Germany has nothing to apologise for, neither too does Japan. I do though look at Japans education system vis a vis ww2. But lets face it, the world and some on here still have Britains empire at forefront of their attitudes to Britain today. We caused everything apparantly. And were still apologising for slavery, Maori wars, Burning the whitehouse down, Isreal, Palestine, and sending Volga to Australia...Sorry Australia..

 

Hello urgh,

you are in top form today urgh - had spend some time with the lady?

Regards
Kruska

 

I dont think so in this case Andy ..the Moroccans came together with the turkish in the 70ies after the Spanish and Italians wich were the first groups coming here . The elder generation Moroccans always guessed they would go back wich kept the elders from integrating . Their children are all born and schooled here and its with them the real issues start .
Some are doing well , but most have a extremely negative attitude towards Holland and openly prefer to be a nuisance to society . As those kids are all Dutch by birth its very hard to take actions against them . Politics hasnt found any answers to this problem so its became a spearhead for ultra right populists now ...and theyre scoring big with their message.

One group of immigrants has already been paying a price , ex 80ies Somali refugees . Theyre not too popular either , but many went through a full cycle of integration courses , so theyre well 'tooled ' to be able to stand on their own feet . Many now are feeling theyre better off living abroad and are looking for a new life in the UK where they are the biggest group of newcomers in some area's . The remarkeable thing is they speak Dutch well , are looking Dutch spoken television over satellite daily and seem to be integrating inthe UK very well . They could not get firm ground under their feet and took their newfound Dutch identity abroad and cherish it , wich is amazing to me ...compared to Moroccans we missed a chance with those Somali people I think ..

Another recent group that was feared for but is doing very well are the Poles .
Many feared a new Maroc problem but its not happening . What was a bit tricky when the Poles came is that they accepted jobs at such low wages in the beginning that they took many jobs away from already low paid Dutch but thats changing now as Poland is developing rapidly into a full euro member and their wages are now at the same level as here. . Nice for some company owners that happened but to society it was a menace causing great social unrest and could have been a root for much hatred towards others . To me that was capitalism in its worst form .Its the Polish spirit that made the Poles a succes , but i'm afraid with Romania and Bulgarians that isnt going to happen the same way ..looking at our streets today we see plenty of new balkan people without any chance of making it here , so i'm afraid a new disaster is waiting to happen again ...

 

Hello Heinrich,

you know upon reading this, what sprung somehow into my mind? How did the Romans actually handle the same problems? with a hundered or so of different tribes and their respective religions living in Italy.

Regards
Kruska

 

PVV For the win

 

Partei fuer Volks Verdummung ?

Regards
Kruska

 

Absolutely ...as the only persons suffering from them will be dutchies like me married to an Asian spouse ...you dont want to know how difficult it gets to keep things going for us with all their crazy integration plans ..thats what I meant with the remark our youth is just plain stupid Parrot talkies...

They had the collosseum , where they dumped their misfits for entertaining the masses lol

 

I've had some time to think this one over, here's basically what I've come up with.

Whether you like it or not, we are ambassadors of sorts to the generations that came before us. If they did something wrong we should try to correct it, if they did something right we should praise it, if they were misjudged we should stand up for them. This doesn't necessarily mean that nations should be giving money out to every Tom, Dick, and Harry who claims to have been insulted by your grandfather, it's case by case of course. Going ever further, what defines a "generation"? 10 years? A century? A millennium? BC, AD?

A generation shouldn't be generalized either or scapegoated in a way that makes them all look bad. Even in Nazi Germany, there were plenty of people who made positive contributions, regular contributions, etc and there were also those who made horrible contributions. We should scold people like Hitler, Mengle, etc but should we scold Hans, Fisher, and Schmidt as well? By saying certain things, do we unintentionally make them implicit accomplices?

On the topic of Germany, the "War generation" is still alive, some even have political power.

 

How is Japan escaping all of this debate?

 

Just what I expect from a land full of sheep Urqh!

Seriously, though, shouldnt we call this the politically correct thread?

EVERYONE is correct....No-one is wrong and you've all done VERY WELL....

Gold stars all round! Hand out the salutes! Reputation points!

Reminds me of a modern talent show, where ALL the contestants are praised for having "talent", ALL are told how wonderful they are, and ALL are informed that their future is secure in the industry if only they can get a break....

Give it a rest. I get enough political correctness in general without having to sink to it on this website as well. Lets not spend too much time congratulating eachother, it gets in the way of informed debate.

AND, if my government has to apologize to Aborigines, over and over again, and use my tax dollars so some of the more unmotivated of them can sit on their arses all day long, then the very least that mainland Europe can do is APOLOGIZE for pulling the rest of the world into their tawdry squabbles....and killing about 50 million people in the process....

To end on a PC note....
Gosh! You've all done SO WELL!....
I agree with EVERYTHING YOU HAVE TO SAY..
You are all WINNERS....
Nobody should feel disgraced....
Everyone is EQUAL, VITAL.....
Did mummy help you all to make that pretty dress? Isn't mummy wonderful?

 

I don't understand why each of your posts seems like an attack one after another.

The salute is not a mere "pat on the back" some users express words that others may think but may be unable to articulate it the way they do, or it could be used as saying nice informative post etc.

 

The original poster is German. Japan is a different beast, the government might not be doing much but it seems the people might be to a certain extent. The way the Japanese war generation is viewed by society is also pretty interesting and in some ways, kind of admirable.

 

VB As part of the commonwealth it was your Crown that was attacked too !
We are thankfull people from sofar away came to help with our liberation and thats what got you my salute ..
But no i dont feel i owe you or Aussi's an apology whatsover .. its like your asking all Europeans now for an apology we were attacked in the first place .

What i think is peculiar is that as far I know Aussi is Aboriginal land ...all of it wich makes all white men a guest there technically...
(guests who obviously mind the hosts way of living ...)
I think you'll have a heart attack seeing how much of our income goes straight to tax (60% plus) , may even be were funding some abo projects too wich to me is all good . Its called solidarity.


The only political power the original nazis still have today is filling in a multiple choice paper about whats for dinner tonight in the care homes theyre now spending their final days in .
(Theyre all minimal 90 years old today and in another 5 years 99,7% is gone forever )
Alzheimer power ..

You should scald them all as military persons Mehar ..all were an instrument of a system gone awol. Within evil you cant make a distinction ,even though some thoughd different their deeds where for a wrong general good .Doesnt mean one cannot pay respects for the person itself , but not for the uniform they wore or military achievements they have made .
An example that pops in my head is the gereral that saved paris from being blown up , he's well honoured by the french as a person today .(Von Choltitz)
A general accepted time frame for a generation will be 20 years .

 

Hello Heinrich...

Native title is another excuse for indegenes to laze around, as they have been doing for the past 40,000 years, living a lifestyle that is totally untradiditional, but all the while claiming their alcholism, lack of a job, and welfare dependent lifestyle is somehow to blame for their own feelings of inadequacy.

When Europeans first arrived here, they were not confronted with any native 'kingdom', nor were these people united in any way shape or form. Contrast this with New Zealand Maori, who not only spoke one language, but had the intelligence to realise that there was much to be had in improving their lives by interacting with Europeans, and trading with them. Australian Aborigines had nothing to trade, no leadership to speak for all, no written language to sign a treaty, and could not speak for anything more than their local tribe.

For modern people of this ilk to call themselves a 'nation', and all the trappings that go with it, is absurd.

And if you think we are here as guests...think again....this is not how native title works, and production in this country of food and other comodities is entirely dependant on technology supplied by Europeans.

Bleeding hearts like yourself have no conception. What if all European Jews and their decendents suddenly arrived in Europe from Israel, claiming ancestral 'rights' and a 'spiritual affinity'....you wouldn't like it either if you personally had to cough up your hard earned piece of real estate, or pay compensation, so don't lecture me about how right and proper everything is here in OZ. Many of these people merely wish to sit around for the resat of their lives, whilst the majority of us work for their future, paying for their housing, their drinking, and their food, and all the while bleeting about how hard done by the 'government' has made it.

The local Larrakia 'Nation' spend money like water, and produce little if anything to show for it. ATSIC, (The Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Commission) chewed through 14 BILLION dollars of taxpayers money in 14 years before being shut down, and with not a business interest, a profit or any usable enterprise to show for it.

As I said, do a bit of research into the subject the way we all have to for WW2 before you make comments concerning Australia.

Other than that, I really have no problem with much of what goes on here. I'm English by birth, Australian by country, my wife is a Maori, and I've got relatives in Holland and Denmark....so maybe we share a little 'culture' somewhere. I happen to think the Dutch are the hardest working people on Earth, and have the most statuesquely BEAUTIFUL women on the face of this earth, (with the exception of my wife, that is)....

 

Never say never .......


List of massacres of Indigenous Australians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Australian frontier wars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Gippsland massacres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Skull Creek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Barrow Creek, Northern Territory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Coniston massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Those are just a few...........so your nation's hands are just as dirty as any other nation's. The sins of our founding father's is an albatross we all must carry around our collective necks. The main reason modern Germany is still scrutinized is because by calling attention to the Nazis it deflects attention from our own mis-deeds.