HBO's "The Pacific"

They stole them from the Army!

The series hasn't grown on me yet and I am really hoping that it picks up in the weeks to come. There is a lot more to the story than what is shown on the screen. It is sufficient to say that I am not impressed thus far. I have waited for almost 25 years for a program such as this to be made and it is not living up to my expectations.

 

Unless we will get a taste of it when Sledge gets into service, I was surprised that no scenes of boot camp were shown. Granted this would have been too similar to BoB's, but boot camp is what seperates one's civilian personality, and creates a Marine. Here we see Leckie as a civilian, then it seems the only difference is he has Marine dungarees on aboard ship. There is no loss of innocence. Even the horrors of battle does not convey that change in Leckie very well, (yet) in my opinion. As we will see in episode 3, Leckie had a conflicting personality. In the one hand, he was a man of letters, an inspiring writer (he would later become a journalist/author), who pours his emotions out in letters to Vera, and in his poems. On the other hand, he has an incorrigible side, was repeatedly truant in school, and will get in some trouble later in Australia.

Greg C.

 

I think there are a number of reasons it would be hard to do Marine Corps Boot Camp.
-First, it doesn't translate well to the screen, it's something that has to be experienced. Only one movie, Full Metal Jacket, has even come close to getting it right and even it was less intense. (The D.I. with Jack Webb would be the next closest).
-To do it right, it would take up too much time and allow less time for other events in the storyline.
-It would be hard to find an acceptable location to re-create it. (Battle Cry, Shores of Tripoli, etc. managed to deal with this by actually filming at MCRD San Diego) Both of the Recruit Depots are very distinctive. A great deal of a recruits time is spent on the Parade Deck. The buildings surrounding the Parade Deck at San Diego are quite distinctive.

Unfortunately, the training tempo for current Marine Corps committments would make filming there extremely hard to do. (to meet it's new increased end strength both recruit depots had to form additional training companies). Parris Island has changed so much since WWII, filming there wouldn't make sense. The actual wooden barracks/quonset huts the WWII Marine recruits used would be easy to find or replicate, both inside and outside but not the exterior shots.
-In the trailers, there are training scenes with Basilone once he returns to the US. It may have been decided that multiple training sequences were unnecessary.

Cla68 wrote:

Ramped landing craft did participate in the initial Guadalcanal Landings, though the majority were non ramped LCP/L's.

UPI Photo of Marines landing at Guadalcanal.
The problem is that even ramped WWII era landing craft are few and far between. I haven't researched it but I doubt there are any surviving LCP/L's.

 

I stand corrected. I thought all the landing craft used in the initial landings were like these ones. This photo, however, also taken during the initial landings, does show ramped landing craft hauling cargo to the beach. This photo, taken in November '42 of Carlson's Raiders coming ashore at Aola Bay, shows ramped landing craft, although it appears that most of them in the picture didn't bother trying to lower their ramps.

On a different subject, one aspect I seem to remember from Leckie's book was his account of the constant feuding and fighting between the lower-ranking Marines and their NCOs and officers. They seemed to dislike each other almost as much as they disliked the enemy. Also, I wonder if the show will depict the relationships that many Marines had in Australia with the local women. If I remember right, Leckie included a lot about that in his book.

 

You're not corrected Cla68. Obviously both types of landing craft were used at Guadalcanal, as this photo also shows.



Greg C.

 

You raise some legitimate points. But with Spielberg's budget, I think the problem of distinctive structures at both Parris Island, and San Diego could have been overcome with computer graphics. If a fleet of war ships can be depicted off-shore, a few period buildings could have been created digitally.

I think more of a problem would have been weaving the training of the three characters together: Basilone was in the Army in 1934-1936 (there are conflicting dates), served in the Philippines, where he earned the nick-name "Manila John," then joined the Marines in 1939. Leckie went in January 1942, and Sledge was the late-comer (December 1942).

Greg C

 

I think, judging by the previews, the training portion is going to be ina later episode once Basilone comes back to the states.

I remember when I was in boot Camp at MCRD San Diego the night before graduation we watched "Gung Ho" and "Boys in Company C" both of which were filmed at MCRD. It was strange how little things had changed.

There is also an old "banana war" 1920-30 era movie "Tell it to the Marines" that takes place at MCRD while it is still under construction............things are still very reconizeable.

My guess is that the training portions will be filmed partially at both MCRD and Camp Pendleton. There are still several buildings at MCRD and Pendleton (then Camp Elliot) that are pre WW2 vintage.

Let be known by all who shall see these present: I will be furious if they try and pass someplace else off as MCRD San Diego....I might accept Mare Island but that's it. Dale Dye will get a stongly worded e-mail.

 

Oh and don't forget, Gomer Pyle: USMC was filmed there too....

 

Choke yourself!!!!

 

Sorry dude, I just had to do it....

 

Greg, the landing craft in the photo is an LCP/L and as I stated:

So no one ever insinuated that non-ramped landing craft were not used, in fact it was specifically stated that they were the majority of those used.
This was in reply to the statement by Cla68 that:

This statement indicates that NO ramped landing craft were used, that is what I was replying to. Cla68 did the gentlemanly thing and stated he stood corrected, and even went further and provided additional photos of ramped landing craft being used.

You made the following statement in reply to Cla68's post:

Greg Canellis wrote:

Now you post that:

So which one is it? No ramped landing craft used or both ramped and non-ramped.

I don't see that Basilone's training would need to be shown since it pre-dated Pearl Harbor the starting point of the series. Leckie and Sid Phillips training could have been shown but then again I don't think it necessary. But that's just my opinion.

Cla68 wrote:

I'd say Leckie's account is the result of two things:
First, Marines bitch, constantly. There's a saying in the Corps that "if the Marines aren't bitching, they're not happy." There is a measure of truth to it, when morale drops troops quit bitching and become surly, despondent, depressed, etc. Marine officers and NCO's will often "nitpick" when things get bad, this serves the purpose of focusing the troops anger on some trivial matter, and not on the bad situation they find themselves in. It also tends to draw the men together and maintain combat effectiveness. I've also heard it said that, " the reason they screw with us so bad on ship is so that when we land we're so pissed off that we kill everything we see." Marines also bicker amongst themselves like siblings, but like siblings they band together against a common threat.
The second reason is as Greg Canellis wrote of Leckie:

So Leckie likely brought a lot of unwanted attention upon himself and this is probably reflected in his perceptions. The Marine Corps is and always has been a love/hate type relationship. Leckie's true feelings about the Corps are reflected in the fact that he was a lifetime member of the 1st Marine Division Association and wrote a large number of books about the Marine Corps, to include, "Strong Men Armed: The United States Marines Against Japan" (a really good compilation), "Marines! : Guts, Gore and Glory - The Whole Stirring Saga of the Greatest Fighting Force in the World, the U.S. Marines!" (what a title!) and quite a few others.
I think formerjughead will back up my observations since he apparently retains a good bit of his Marine Corps induced feistyness.

Perhaps we can persuade him to add some of his observations

 

Cla68 wrote:

Sorry dude, meant to reply to this as part of the last post and didn't. It looks like you're in luck, the previews would seem to indicate this will be covered in episode #3.
Bob P.

 

I never said that non-ramped landing craft were not used at Gradalcanal, nor did I "insinuate" that anyone else stated that.

And in my view, Cla68 was not "corrected" as both landing crafts were used. "Corrected" means to me that he thought he was wrong, which he was not, and I reminded him of that. I just don't like to see someone back down when there is no need to. My opinion.

I'll put it in one word: both.

I am well aware of Leckie as an author, and own several of his books you listed, and some you did not list. I was referring to the character development of Leckie in the series. In his memoir, he reveals that he gets in trouble in Australia on more than one occassion, most of it alcohol related, be it the stress of combat, or just youthful behavior. In a video interview of Leckie (from the 1990s? - not sure of the date), Leckie mentioned that as a youth he was always skipping school, and smoking cigerettes. I was just looking for some of this personal "history" to be brought to the Leckie character. Leckie also began to try to keep books in combat. Because he was known to have two books in particular, a dictionary and an almanac, he was looked on by his buddies as a sort of scholar, or a go-to-guy for information. So, I am not sure what you meant by Leckie "likely brought a lot of unwanted attention upon himself." The dualality of Leckie's personality: the serious, bookish, poetic writer vs troublesome youth is what interests me.

Greg C.

 

Greg Canellis wrote:

If that was not your intent, fair enough, I stand corrected. However, I would suggest that you go back and reread the original exchange, with an open mind, and see if that's not how it read.

I followed Cla68's Wikipedia links and read his articles. He is obviously a sharp, knowledgeable guy. I really doubt he would have said "I stand corrected" if he didn't feel he was in error. In his original post he did intend to say that only non-ramped landing craft were used in the initial landings, and unless he tells me he intended otherwise I'll stick with my interpretation of what he wrote.

How do you figure he is backing down? We all make mistakes, mis-speak or quote sources that turn out to be wrong. Hell, there are members of this forum that have forgotten more that most of us will ever know about WWII. (I call them my Guru's) Even they make mistakes. Whatever the reason for the error, Cla68 manned up, corrected himself and drove on. IMO he displayed integrity, I admire him for it and it makes me want to engage in more discussions with him. That's my opinion!

The whole Leckie thing I wrote was in response to a question asked by Cla68, it was not directed at you. Rather than re-state something you had already written I simply quoted you.

The best way to get by in the Marine Corps as a Pvt or PFC is to "fly under the radar". Do not draw attention to yourself. Leckie's "incorrigible side" would cause his NCO's to pay him extra attention, he'd be ridden harder, given more crap details, duty etc. because he drew as I stated:

If you doubt me ask formerjughead, he knows how the Marine Corps works. I did it myself, if I had a crap detail I had to provide troops for, my "problem" Marines were the first I put on the list. If there was duty I had to provide Marines for or when I was assigning fire watches etc. they were the first Marines whose name popped in my head. I ran into a former private of mine, named Bigelow, at Jump School after I'd joined the Army. He was a corporal at the time and was sent from a battalion recon unit. He told me he had hated me when I was his platoon Sgt. because I'd always give him the crap details. He finally decided that the best way for him to avoid getting screwed all the time was to square himself away. He became a good Marine and thanked me for being hard on him, and changing his attitude.

 

I've seen that movie, I really liked it, gave a glimpse of what the really old Corps was like.

Hey, I've often wondered where Camp Elliot was located. Jacques Farm and Camp Margarita were easy but, Camp Elliot is another story. In contemporary accounts Camp Elliot and Camp Pendleton were often mentioned as seperate entities. When I was stationed out there I never did figure it out for sure and ended up assuming Camp Elliot had eventually been absorbed by Camp Pendleton. Then I read an article in a San Diego history publication, that stated that Camp Elliot had eventually become part of MCAS Miramar. Do you know for sure which is correct? I figure since you were a San Diego Marine you might have the straight skinny.

 

consolidated to the post below

 

More true words were never spoken....I think Chesty Puller even said that he didn't trust a corporal who hadn't been promoted 3 times. That was of course before Lance Corporals.

You are correct...........I meant Camp Matthews (near LaJolla) when I said Camp Elliot. Camp Elliot was absorbed into Miramar. Here is a link that I have tried to make sense of regarding The history of The Marines in Southern California:

Historic California Posts: A Brief History of the U.S. Marine Corps in San Diego

Maybe we'll get this moved to it's own thread.

There is also this site: http://www.ww2gyrene.org/boot_camp.htm which details Marine Recruit training during WW2

 

Brad, you may want to get that e-mail written up as soon as you have the time. To my knowledge no filming was done in the US.

Wiki lists only locations in Australia , and don't worry no spoilers.
The Pacific (miniseries) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

LOL....I think I have a pretty good idea how things play out in the bigger picture; but, thanks for looking out....

 

Naval History's Guide to "The Pacific" is a viewer’s companion to each episode, with riveting articles, battle maps, videos and exclusive photos, all laced with the human dramas that played out during the Pacific campaign.

HBO's The Pacific - U.S. Naval Institute