Best fighter of WW2

Erich's right on this one.

The P-47 generally packed 8 x .50 ( although in photos it nearly always looks like 6 as the outboard guns do not protrude ).

However, squadrons had the option of removing two guns and varying the ammo load. Roger Freeman in his book 'Thunderbolt' cites the P47D-1-RE as having 6 x .50 with 300 rpg or 8 x .50 with 425 rpg.

 

In addition, early D's had the following numbers above the mg's for maintenance duties. On the right wing was marked 1,2,3,4 on the left wing was marked 4,3,2,1.

EB

 

Sorry, I checked the internet and yes, the P-47D DID carry 8 .50 machine guns. It could also carry 10 5 inch rockets OR 1,500 lbs. of bombs. The P-51 could also carry 10 5 inch rockets and could carry 2,000 lbs. of bombs. It couldn't carry those two other machine guns though.

Maybe I should get a new book!!!

[ 28 September 2002, 05:31 PM: Message edited by: Mustang ]

 

Mustang, to the best of my recolection the Mustang carried only 6 rockets, 3 under each wing in this configuration
O
O O
and also I believe all versions of the P-47 were armed with 8 mgs

 

Sorry, I'll check the internet again.

 

The P-51 carried 10 5 inch rockets. Please check at http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/air_power/ap9.htm

 

I've got a better idea ! Go to the library or go buy some books on the a/c you so dearly luv and then check on the multiple fighter group web-pages that are on the net and ask the web-masters or the vets........

E

 

Sorry if I have un-nerved you Erich. I like the site.

Blue Skies

[ 28 September 2002, 07:54 PM: Message edited by: Mustang ]

 

Back to the subject. By wars end the P-51 had destroyed 4,950 enemy aircraft IN THE AIR. More than ANY other fighter in Europe.

 

I see what seems to be a couple unrelaible sources here...
Martin- the ammo load your book notes dosen't seem to make sense- with less guns, there would be MORE ammo per gun... but Freeman seems to suggest that the version with 8 guns carried MORE ammo than the version with six???

I found these air force webpages,
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/annex/an38.htm
http://afmuseum.com/aircraft/p47d.html
both of which claimed that the P-47D had EITHER six or eight mgs...

[ 01 October 2002, 09:28 AM: Message edited by: CrazyD88 ]

 

Intersting but through interviews with 56th f.g. vets they all had the 8 .50's and only in 1945 did some of the pilots selectively remove the outer two .50's and had the port holes taped or covered up to lighten the a/c.

E

 

It certainly seems that the majority of P-47Ds were produced with 8 mgs... But those webpages seem legit, and they note some production with only 6 mgs. I would guess that between production and field modifications, there were probably decent numbers of both planes available. Considering the numbers of Fighter Groups and planes the US used in the European theater, I would certainly not take the experiences of the 56th to be the rule for all the groups.

Might need to go to the library with Mustang, eh?

 

I noticed that discrepancy, too, Crazy ( about the P47 ammo loads ) and wondered if less weight of ammo was carried deliberately
This is confusing....

[ 01 October 2002, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: Martin Bull ]

 

That does seem odd... one would think that it would be common sense, if you lessen the number of guns, at the least I would imagine keeping the ammo load the same. But maybe Freeman is referring to a specific version- a recon fighter, or maybe just a version that needed to be lighter. If Freeman is speaking of a field modification- the airmen themselves removing the extra gun- then I could understand the ammo discrepancy. Maybe P-47 fliers found that they did not need the extra two guns OR the extra ammo, and simply removed both.

But that also seems odd in light of Mustang's point about performance vs. durability... if the P-47 was so durable, why try and make it lighter and faster?

Martin- a funny side note- one of the authors I'm working with on this 8th Air Force project recently asked that we look into some sources from Roger Freeman. Not the most auspicious start, eh?!

 

Good grief this is all sounding so hard for everyone to understand.

I haven't just spoken with 56th f.g. vets only Crazy. Other vets of the 353rd, 352nd and the 355th, also the 9th A.F. 354th when they got shafted and had their P-51 B's taken away from them and given to the 8th a/f boys and had to take on the P-47 which they hated for escort duties and then forced to do ground attack during the bulge battles. vets from two other P-47 groups in the 9th as well. Simple, the P47 was regulated to do ground attack tasks in the 8th a/f and only the 56th f.g. remained with the a/c through the war. The P-47 was equipped with 8 .50s as standard and through field modifications the maintence crews removed 2 .50's from each wing, 1 a piece to lighten the load, 2 less guns and their ammo. It had already been proiven with the P-51 in the ETO that only 4 .50's were needed to take on all Luftwaffe fighters and some of the late P-51's were modified to go back to the 4 guns in 1945. This was to increase the handling capabilities and speed endurance needed so the a/c could fly over Bayern and into Croatia and Czechslovakia. The 8 .50's were retained for ground attack duties in the 9ths and even in the 8th's 56th fighter groups and only a selective bunch of pilots, most of them aces had two of the guns removed to make the a/c lighter and more effective in aerial combat. As to Freeman's points of view, well whatever.......I have never run across any D model of the P-47 or others that only 6 guns were standard......but......

E

 

... I can feel another headache coming on....

 

Martin :

Dr. Brown says to have a spot of Tea (Earl Grey) and two Bromo Selzers and call him in the morning !
I know Roger Freeman is supposed to be the so-called expert on ? 8th air force items I do believe......we all can't be experts this is a fact. There are too many variables just like the buzz on this .50's thing. Anything can be believed......

E

 

Sorry if I seemed rude, Erich- but you bring up exactly my point. Seemed everyone was really quick (and in some cases a bit condescending) in shooting down Mustang; but much slower to check their own sources. This just really goes to show that we all need to look at our sources with a critical eye, whatever those sources may be...

...maybe your sources have some flaws as well...
Personally, I'll believe the Air Force Museum.

 

My point to Mustang was go talk with some vets and get some books and quit relying so heavily on the internet. The necessary evil it would appear. But my sources are correct Crazy and I stand by them one hundred percent. I would love to hear of a P-47 vets account in writing; of him flying a standard P-47 D model with only 6 .50's the whole war. that would be something because I would surely file it away in my P-47 docs. Would love to be proven wrong again........please ! Time for a Bromo Selzer

E

 

Thinking this over for a little and looking back at the original question or statement. What armament did the P-47 have as standard equipment ? is this the original statement that Mustang had on his mind when he posted it ?
You'll believe a musuem before what I have... ? Fine, I guess my sources over 220 vets accounts aren't crdible then. So be it. Sorry my web-site isn;t up so that it could enlighten you.....

See Ya !