Especially for IRu, but need more input on this. A book I have claims that martin bormann was a Sovi

This is some really interesting and new news to me but, I read in at least two places ina book I just bought that its claimed that martin bormann was a Soviet Agent.

The book I saw this mentioned in at least twice is a book by Franz Kurowski called: Brandenburg Commandoes. I picked up this book mainy because it gives names I can research-MILITARY names and names of those who served in the Brandenburgers who were awarded the Knights Cross, the German Cross in Gold as wellas one German Cross in Silver. These men got these awards either before, during or after service in the Brandenburger units.

The list in the Brandenburg book lists I think? 33 DKiGs when in all reality-one of them is the DKiS guy. I think there were also 31 RKTs who served in that unit.

Anyway, this isnt about those guys BUT, that the author claims that martin bormann (one of Hitlers most closeset of aides and a right hand) was actually a spy for the Soviets during WWII.

Now all that I read-which I just skimmed over the book at the time but as this was mentioned, it cought my eye, but if you look at the events that took place-it IS viable that he could have served for the Soviets but as I have never heard of, seen nor ever been pointed to another source that substantiates this, I don't believe the Authors claims accodring to what is in his book.

Things to remember are that bormann supposedly died fighting his way out of Berlin (which) if you want to twist things around? this could have meant (in Franz Kurowskis mind) that bormann made it to "friendly" lines and actually survived the fighting in Berlin and returned to work again, for his "true" masters.

However, as im only just now starting this book, I dont know what other things are printed that substantiates this claim. If this claim had been discovered to have been true beyond any doubt, wouldnt it have been plastered all over world news by now? I think it would have been.

Anyway, im wanting any thoughts on this ESPECIALLY from IRu if possible?

 

I have seen these allegations before (when Gehlen was writing his memoirs):IMHO,it only is BS in the 2nd degree,because,Bormann never had access to military informations,and,I doubt he ever was present on Hitler's "Lagebesprechungen",he was not present in the hut on the 20th july .

 

I have also heard this somewhere, but have seen nothing credible to support the idea. Until I do it will remain an urban ledgend for me.

 

Also any plan for 'escaping' to Soviet lines would not have been best done from Berlin - even if he was working for them he wouldn't have made it through the lines easily at all. My guess is that a story went around that he was a soviet spy from the German side before 45 because so many people disliked him, and it snuck into enough stories that someone regenerated it later.

Also to bear in mind that Bormann would have been unlikely to have much that the Soviets wanted after the war apart from a few lists perhaps - so there would have been little reason to keep him secret for very long. Anything of significant value he had I think would have been worth the Soviets publishing (mostly Nazi party or wartime stuff, not technology) at least eventually and probably immediately, so no need for him to be kept under wraps.

 

Hi;
Somebody high in NAZI command was passing information to the USSR via the Lucy spy network.
Book Review: Hitler's Traitor: Martin Bormann and the Defeat of the Reich (by Louis Kilzer) : WW2 » HistoryNet
Whether it was Bormann or not is still a subject of speculation.
JeffinMNUSA

 

I should not use Kilzer as a serious source:he is giving no proof for his allegations,and one of his other works(Churchill's dark secret is as much unreliable:Kilzer claims (without proof) that the "visit" of Hess was a plan of MI6 .It seems it is not difficult to obtain the Pulitzer price .

 

Thanks guys. I dont have time to say much so will try doing so tomorrow.

 

Thank you, Carl, that you trust my opinion, I will try to confirm this .

So, about Bormann.
I think, this version appeared during Nuremberg process. When I read the materials the Nuremberg trials, I remember that some Nazis called Bormann - Soviet spy. His suspicions are based on the following:
- Borman issued the directive, which ordered to destroy the civilian population of Russia;
- Borman took part in the "Jewish question"
- Borman does not allow use of the Ukrainian nationalists against the communists.
All this contributed to the growth resistance of the Russian population and led to the defeat of Germany.
I think that is absurd. In this case, Hitler can be called a British spy too.
But after the Nuremberg trials the Cold War began. And I think, that Western intelligence services were beneficial to maintain the image of the Soviet Union as a dangerous enemy. («They are so cool guys, even Bormann was their resident. Give us more money to fight against them»). Therefore, the version, that Bormann was a Soviet spy, repeated American and British intelligence. The same happened in the USSR. In the days of my youth, we have considered a potential spy in every foreigner. Probably why so few people of my generation knows the English language (In our case it is practically not taught at schools and colleges. So I had to learn it now. But my children, who were born during «perestroika», know English better than me).
In 1992, in Russia, a book by Boris Tartakovsky was published, "Martin Bormann - an agent of Soviet intelligence." In it, he also argues that Bormann had been recruited by Ernest Thalmann in 1921. In his book he refers to the journalist and writer Colin Forbes, the recognition of General Gehlen (Intelligence officer, Wehrmacht), but provides no direct evidence. The only thing he brings photo tomb, which is located in Moscow, Lefortovo cemetery. On this tomb inscription: «Martin Bormann 1900 – 1972»
It is unlikely that this can also be evidence that Bormann was working for Russia.
It would be so cynical to reveal agent of USSR. As far as I know the intelligence has an immutable rule: All the intelligence that we can see on TV, who are interviewed, who write books, or who are described in the book and articles - it's all disclosed spies. I mean - they have failed, they were to find, reveal. If the spy was not revealed - we are never will know about him. Even after his death. If only they will not be write the WikiLeaks

Finally, yesterday I found a documentary on the subject. http://smotri.com/video/view/?id=v835931f012

It argues that in 1998, DNA examination was made by of remains, found at the supposed place of death Bormann. His son, also Martin Bormann, gave his blood for analysis. Examination confirmed, that remains, found in Berlin, owned by Bormann. (They were found by the witness of his death - Arthur Axman, the Head of the Hitler Youth).

So, my opinion is that this is not true. It would be nice to say that the USSR had such an cool agency, but it is not. In the 30 years the intelligencers were also under Stalin’s terror, and many of them were executed on false charges of treason.
By the way, I read that the famous Soviet spy, Richard Sorge, was also summoned to Moscow in 1940. But he realized that he was going to be arrested, and did not go, citing the employment. After this, the Centre ceased to pay him and help financially. Recent years, Sorge worked only for his enthusiasm. This explains why he reportedly did not believe.
In 1970 the USSR was made very interesting movie "17 mgnoveni vesny» («Seventeen Moments of Spring»). This film tells the story of a Soviet intelligence agent who served in the Reich Security Main Office in Germany. In Russia, this film is still popular. It is based on the book of Julian Semenov with the same title. There are no battle scenes, this "spy movie". But the spy there is not a superman, and not agent 007, as an ordinary person. There is interesting to show the last days of the Reich. I recommend watching this movie or reading this book. So that's one of the prototypes of the Soviet spy was Willie Lehman. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willi_Lehmann

He really was a Soviet spy unmasked by the end of 1942, and shot. Other validated data about Soviet spies in the Reich, I do not know.

 

I agree.

I've actually seen that claim as well.

 

On AHF,by some one from Bielo Russia

 

Quite welcome Iru/ ;-)) and thank you for the info above which does enlighten alot of things about this. I can see how a story can be made up so easily dealing with what went on during the last few crazy days of the fighting in Berlin. It sure would make for a great fictional account though-for bormann to have actually been an agent of Stalin. ;-))

Im still reading Kurowskis book and theres bound to be more -eh hem "interesting things" that the Author claims. One thing I noticed about the book is that they must not have hired an editor for it because of all the dozens and soon to be hundreds of mistakes ive seen in the book-mostly things like spellings of names-ranks units and such-but other things including omissions of names that need to be on the Brandenburg DKiG list-already found a name even without thinking of looking for it.