Desert Rat Graves Desecrated

Way too much stirring and Buggering I think!

 

What the world needs now....
Is a great big melting pot......

Take one baddie....add some of our goodies...if cant find goodies buy goodies..
Stir thoroughly....Rinse with luke warm truth...
Add handfull of forgetfullness...
Stir rigourously...
Take away incubators at this stage...if not sympathy wont mix properly...
If incubators left in add some extra pics of suffering.
Turn on side..side that you prepared and shook hands with flour earlier...
stir quickly hope no ones looking...
Add more sympathetic stories...
Bugger its burnt...

 

That's why I added the "etc....etc.....etc..." I figured there would be a long enough laundry list of offensive deeds, those were just the ones that came to mind first...

 

With all the statements made on this post your biggest problem is me saying "they", and thus I am non-educated and ignorant. Let me correct you, I said "they attacked the towers TWICE". First of all where is the "clearly the LIE of the statement"?

Second. Who is they, the type of Muslims who would desecrate graves and kill INNOCENT people for an ACCIDENTAL koran burning. The same type of people who constantly call on death to American and Americans. The same type who believe in "rightous killing", and they even live in the US and Canada.
Honor Killing: Mohammad Shafia Said He’d Kill Daughters Again if Needed | TheBlaze.com
Arizona: Why an Iraqi Woman Fell Victim to Honor Killing - TIME
Honor killing in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Those people would not lift a finger to help Americans, yet we came running to help the Muslims devestated by the tsunami. Yes, we, not the Muslim world, donated the most money to help.

How can you make a statement like "Well, because of our massive ignorance " in light of so much double standard, intolerance, death caused by those Islamists. How can you even compare us to THEM. How many Muslims do we kill in America, how many Masques do we burn. Try building a church in Afgh or Iraq. We even have laws to protect them. Just how many Korans burned, compared to how many innocant poeple were killed, how many churches burned compared to Korans. Are you blind or just ignorant to the facts staring at you. The Islamists are inntolorent of us, the "infidels". They are NOT willing to live side by side, yet we are. Is it ok to use "we", or am I generalizing.
"Why would we expect them to automatically have our values." Well sorry, we thought they may have the same values of tolerance and respect of human life. I guess you are right, we are stupid to have believed that.
Funny how up spent so much time typing just how ignorant us Amricans are. And yet not a single condemnation of the violence, or a single mention of all the other hundreds of examples of violence against innocent people all over the world perpetuated by Islamist.

"How deaf are our Westboro people when our leaders express similar statements to those acts as well." The Westboro people are VERY few in numbers and just how often do you see them or do you hear of them. While the violence and intolorance of the Islamist I see ALL OVER the Musilim world. Last time I check the Westboro people did not kill anyone, let alone thousands. Plus our society protects their right to thier views, or otherwise most of us would simply beat the crap out of them. So in a way we can't stop them. However, I do not see any "real" condemnation from the Islamic world against not just this "madness" and thousands before this.

The only thing we may agree on is the we should not be there. However, our reasons are different. You say that we are not enlightened to the way of Muslims and thus should not be. While I believe there is a large portion of the Musilm population that is barbaric, evil, intalorent and just looking for a reason to justify violence against the West and mostly each other.

Plus what the hell are we supposed to do with those Korans? Did they come from "evidance" room, having secret messages. Its such a shame that our soldiers have to worry about such details or all hell will break lose.

 

Who did invade who in 1942 just because "they were in the way"? who did help subvert a half democratic regime to put the Shah in place?, who backed Bin Laden and his tugs when the Soviets were in Afghanistan? and the list could be a lot longer, USS Cole and 9/11 didn't come "out of the blue".

But "who started it" is really irrelevant, the real issue is how do we "win" against a bunch of fanatics in a media dominated world. Just some thoughts about the realities of the current conflict. BTW I am assuming the objective is making the fanatics harmless NOT some daydream like "exporting democracy":
- Information moves a lot faster than it used to, and is a lot harder to control.
- Attempting to control information and failing will "boomerang" as human nature tends to equate witholding information with lies, on the otherhand if you suceed you're home free so there's a bit temptation to try.
- There are some bad guys around thet know how to use propaganda nearly as well as the western advertisers , and they know their own people's mindset a lot better than we do.
- It's a lot easier to inflame a crowd than to make people think.
- "Chennault's principle" even if you are globally a lot stronger you are not going to win if you let your enemy choose the battleground.
- More "balls" are required in handling this sort of situation, S***t will happen, you can't field thousands of soldiers and hope nobody will ever goof given the stress they are subject to, but IMO the anouncement should have been something along the lines of "It happened, it was a mistake and WE are going to take strong measures to prevent a recurrence and punish the people responsible", IMO that would have gone a long way towards spiking the enemy's guns. Intead we got a counterproductive mix of cover up/justification (if the people who handled the materials could read the language well enough to recognize extremist propaganda they obviously could also read what the books were!) and apology (that makes us look weak).

 

You can keep the self deprication and flagellation to yourself. If I a have to be labeled by the few that represent me then Islamist get to be labeled as well. How many crowds have we seen over the years burning US flags or our leaders in effigy? US personnel burn some Korans that were used to smuggle contraband, an act wich would desecrate the book to begin with, and it causes an uproar.

I don't know wich is worse the Muslim Hyprocrissy or the Western Guilt merchants......

 

Who is they? The Islamists are have decleared war against Christains and other religions.

Here we go again. Another DAILY attack against Christains perpetuated by Islamists.
Suicide car bomber kills 3 outside Nigeria church - Boston.com

 

For the record, I am against violence perpetrated against any of our troops or citizens and am willing to support the war efforts that defend our people against that. If we have a large number of people not willing to respect that there exists Islamic people, that are not willing or wanting to perpetrate violence against us, we are in some sad form of denial and there is even less hope for any kind of future for our children as they(Islamists) make up a larger portion of the population of the world and we need to be very persuasive to increase the non-warring elements, if we hope to have a way of getting along. The broad pen of generalization of others is just ignorance prevailing where education serves a better end. I can say I do not condone book burning, period, as it has been taught to me to be a symptom of flawed values in a society.(even if the books are not of my preference) I also will say I have been in parts of the mid-east,and as a westerner one surely knows his refuse is going to be gone through with a fine tooth comb(if one has been there any length of time) by any easterners that may be of the general population of the areas. So you can be assured, it is not like a dumping of trash we are all accustomed to doing as a regular routine here. If you cannot imagine the value in the waste material, then you may also be like me before I visited the mid-east, and that is in need of overcoming some ignorance of how one, a human being, lives there. Is there something wrong with me for wanting the U.S. Citizen to be a stalwart example for the rest of the world to shed a bright light about our values of living under the U.S. Constitution with the freedoms that can bear a fruit of prosperity for our people that can be shared across the borders by our examples of using those freedoms? If you think I am just interested in peddling guilt amongst us, you read my dreams all wrong and I am poor in my abilities of expressing what I dream of.(I can take the blame for that) Yes as a citizen, despite it all, I still have dreams for our ways and for all of our citizens whether they are the least or the most of our society.

 

I don't care how enraged you may be, there's just no justification for these acts - zip, nada etc. So in short:
View attachment 15861 I love this one.

and another thing:

View attachment 15862

 

Its such a shame that our soldiers have to worry about such details or all hell will break lose.

Tom, your sentence above is what it is all about...Yes they do or you end up with shots to the back of the head, storming compounds, wrecked war graves, staff being evacuated. That doesn't mean you back down in the face of aggression or threat of killings etc, it just means you don't let it happen in the first place.

As for Muslims...Buring flags...Flags to me are cloth...our blood no matter what anyone says is not written on any flag. But I notice and others may too that Argentinians can burn your and my flag at ease and no one says a word...

 

I don't remember seeing Americans burning Afghan flags after 9/11. Nor do I remember riots and storming of Afghan embassies. To me, and you all keep in mind that I am an immigrant, to me it seems that US gives the most aid to the world, we are the first to help in face of tragedy, we wish that every one on Earth could live in freedom, we are a melting pot and for the most part it is working, we have THE MOST tolerant society in the world, we prtoect the rights of all religions, we have the most respect for others. And yet in so many nations, especialy the ones getting the most aid, it is "cool" to be anti American. It down right pisses me off. Hell, we even dont pick on people driving around in thier cars with other nations flags all over their car. Try doing that in any other country other then US and see how quiclly you get your ass kicked. It seems to be ok and "cool" to disrespect US not just abroad but inside our borders.

 

we even dont pick on people driving around in thier cars with other nations flags all over their car. Try doing that in any other country other then US and see how quiclly you get your ass kicked.

Rubbish. Thats not me antagonising you by the way...just your statement above is rubbish...I've travelled all over the world. I too am an immigrant by the way in my country if that matters, dont know why but you raised it...I've seen flags of all nationalities on cars, houses, gardens in all major countries I've visited without even thinking thats strange letting someone else fly or show a flag in your nation...Its just not a correct statement to make. By god we even let USA fly flags in England...And no one comes to any harm. Amazing. As to giving to other nations...The charity of America like others in the west and you should also look at the percentage of money per capita or population when you make claims on aid given etc. For your population against even Mine there is a large dicrepancy and we could never give more...we dont have the staff you see....Nor does poor old Ireland...I see that with Greece...their own fault..I'm not defending their monetary policies...has been offered American aid...In their hour of need...what are they offered...Bloody tanks, second hand ones...free of charge...Your looking at things in one way only here...You can ignore the rest of the aid but that I think is the whole problem.

 

Like any despot who leads through terror giving your followers something to hate is easier than giving them something to believe in.

 

Ok, time for me to be unpopular. I will start off start off saying I served eight years in the USAF during the cold war. McClellan AFB and RAF Lakenheath being my two main service bases. My brother was a career USAF NCO, and my Dad was in the USN beginning in 1938, and at Pearl Harbor during the attack. No shortage of duty in my family.

That being said, we have lost the moral high ground. Yes, we have suffered terrorist attacks. Terrorists should all burn in hell, no argument there. But then we have what seems to be the new generation of ground pounders who humiliate prisoners, urinate on corpses, murder civilians, and we're supposed to be outraged when the other side acts like idiots? We have a generation of ground pounders that aren't as professional as they were in the 70's or 80's, and (this is proven) now has gang members and near illiterates baring arms for the US.

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

 

in the 70's or 80's

At the risk of being unpopular this side of the pond too....I agree with The above remark in conjuntion with the sentiment made.

Unfortunately...today every one is a hero...Our governments tell them...We tell them..Everyone in uniform is NOT a hero, never was, never is never will be...We are doing our service folk and our service histories a disservice in that projection.

In my day....pull up a sandbag...and the older ways are always best...I know sign of old age...but in my day we would laugh at anyone in forces who thought they were a hero never mind the civilians calling us that, not they ever did. Keep the hero worship for the heros....there's precious few of them...don't give or steal their thunder. Cold war warriors rule by the way...

 

I have travelled the world too, and I did not see to the extent of what I see here in the states as far as "showing" off other nations flags. Personally and strictally personally I dont like it. Its kind off like hanging pictures of your ex-wife in your in new wifes house. And as far as US flags in Britain, well that makes sense. After all thats US and England, well thats family.

 

As I have many family or extended family that serves our country........I am always reminded that overwhelmingly there are good people on our side of this conflict....as frustrating as so many incidents are....I draw attention to the fact that we have lost a Major and a Colonel from what may be retaliation for the subject of this thread. As I helped to raise one who is now serving, I am proud of his and another nephews service as well as a number of other friends of the family who also serve. I can say they were taught to be honorable and I pray they have always served as they were raised. I worry so much about PTSD as I have so many friends from the Viet Nam era who served a year or two who were severely effected with what they had to do in war. So Gromit, don't despair completely, I still have hope for most of them if we can get them back home in a healthy way. Many have been abused......is the only way I can put it with the repeated assignments, that tear a growing family apart,.... they have faced this over and over to return to either Afghanistan or Iraq or both to complete their service. The length of this war is bound to take a heavy toll on the personal lives of so many. We have got to remember the good ones that have served us. Yes there are gang members, and near illiterates but that has always been true in the past as well. We can't let those stand as the elements we focus on when there are many good ones serving as well. I must draw attention that there are some that do not have to go back for more service..however.......they feel a grave responsibility to safeguard those less experienced and because of that make the decision to return numerous times to these conflicts and who can deny them admiration for that kind of service.

 

Victor, I hear what you're saying. In Vietnam, we had the draft. Everybody (more or less) at risk for going there. Then we had the all volunteer service which was suppose to create a more professional armed forces, as it was populated by those who WANTED to be in the military. For 20 years or so, it work just so. Then came 9/11, and a generation who confused patriotism with revenge. A generation brought up on very violent video games, gansta rap, and a general desensitizing towards life and respect. After the meat grinding of two wars, the Army and the Marines lowered their enlistment standards, and guys with records were inducted. Unheard of when I was in.