Gettysburg

Just in case either of you are interested and have never seen it, here is an online edition of Hardee's Manual.
It was the basic manual both sides used in the Civil War to train and fight their infantry units. From Wikipedia:

"In 1855 at the behest of Secretary of War Jefferson Davis, Hardee published Rifle and Light Infantry Tactics for the Exercise and Manoeuvres of Troops When Acting as Light Infantry or Riflemen, popularly known as Hardee's Tactics, which became the best-known drill manual of the Civil War. He is also said to have designed the so-called Hardee hat about this time."

TABLE OF CONTENTS

You'll find within it the different fire control and targeting commands I mentioned earlier plus a few others.


General William J. Hardee

Another useless peice of trivia, but related to Davis' time as Secretary of War.

-The shoes that each side wore were referred to as the Model 1851/59 Jefferson, Jefferson Davis brogans/boots or simply Davis brogans/boots. Adopted by Davis (who later became President of the Confederacy) when he was Secretary of War they came in standard sizes (for mass pproduction) and were foot specific (cut for the left and right foot). Prior to this army shoes/boots were cut the same and could be worn on either foot, in fact Army regulations required they be rotated between the feet to ensure even wear.

 

"REGULATIONS REQUIRED THEY BE ROTATED BETWEEN THE FEET TO ENSURE EVEN WEAR..."


OH JHC....And I thought the australian Army were the only ones truly interested in saving money!

 

I thought you two might enjoy these also:

GETTYSBURG Reunion - YouTube

Civil War Veterans on Film, ECHOES OF THE BLUE & GRAY, Gettysburg Reunion THE VACANT CHAIR - YouTube

Another interesting thing is that immediately post war the debate amoung Southerners was who had advanced furthest during Pickett's Charge. The debate became heated between the Virginian's and North Carolinian's, It was only later when different officers began to attempt to assign blame for the defeat that all the other issues came up. It is also interesting that this did not occur until after Lee's death, so he couldn't comment the correctness of one side or the other. Lee post war was very reticent about discussing the war and only did so in any depth on very few occasions.

 

Actually Volga this was a carry over from British Army practice.

 

Volga, I originally attempted to post this on the Visitor's Messages of your profile, but it was too long. You and Kodiac Bear have been such good sports during the discussion, I wanted to explain a little about where and how I developed my point of view. So here's the post I intended for your messages:

"Thank you for the salute Volga. The Civil War is an old and long held passion of mine. I even did some part time, volunteer work at the Chickamauga Battlefield as a historical interpreter, that's where I picked up a lot of the errata. The Park Historian was a stickler for detail so that you could give the visitors an accurate understanding of what it was like to be a Civil War soldier and why they fought in the manner they did. When the 130th year commemorations came around, the different parks shared around their interpreters so I did as many as my work schedule would permit. I did Gettysburg, Chickamauga, Perryville, Shiloh, Kennesaw, Chattanooga, Ft. Donnelson, and probably a couple more I can't remember. Interacting with their Park historians and onsite interpreters I learned a lot more. This is also around the time I read any Regimental history I could find, that's when I realized that most histories got the what happened correct, but not necessarily the why. Some of the newer histories have corrected the errors that Catton, Foote, Tucker and others made, and some have made it worse, trying to interpret the events in modern, anachronistic terms, or trying to prove their pet theories. It kind of reminds me of some of our early Congressional debates where newly elected Congressmen and Senators lectured Jefferson, Adams, Madison and others, the people that created it, on what the original intent of the Constitution was on certain matters. People can really be insane at times."

 

And the British got it from the Roman Legions of old....who could march in sandals from London to Chester in little more than a day...Tremendous feat...sorry feet,

 

You the man urgh, thanks for the knowledge!!!!!

 

Didn't the Pict's do much the same thing, Butt Nekkid!

 

Are you sure about the caliga being symetrical? The patterns I've seen were for left and right from what I recall. See:
caligae pattern - Google Search

 

Actually, I always DID want to ask you whether you had visited the Chickmauga battlefield....turns out you have, and historic interpretations for the museum to boot. I'm impressed at that one.

It has long been a dream of mine to travel to the US for the express purpose of visiting some of these Civil War sites. Chickmauga was definately on my list, and Shiloh, too, principally because it's so unspoilt and off the regular tourist track. To think, I could walk in the footsteps of people i had read so much about, like Braxton Bragg, or James Longstreet.

You must...repeat MUST give us some photos from Chickmauga, and, frankly, anything else you can think of thats related. I would be all ears and eyes for what is fast becoming my favourite historical period.

To have the sheer privelage of living near something like Chickamauga, to be able to walk the ground...man, what a lucky person you are.

PLEASE post some photos. Lets have a look at the "Longstreet Gap", (or the place where it was supposed to be...or a photo of the hill that Thomas gained his name from "The Rock of Chickmauga". Hell, I'll send MONEY to finace something like that!

By the way, General Thomas was responsible for my absolute favourite quote from the period. It comes from the aftermath of Missionary Ridge/Lookout Mountain. One of Thomas's men was burying dead soldiers from the battle, on a pl;ace called Orchard Knob. He asked Thomas whether he should "..Bury them according to states, in plots marked 'Illonois' or 'Ohio', stating that it was the 'right' of these people to lay where they fell with people from their own state.

"No....no...", said Thomas, "Mix em' up...mix em' up...I'm TIRED of States rights!"

 

Dude, I've lived near it much of my life, live right outside of it and travel through it regularly. Take my dogs there hiking all the time. I'll be glad to take any pictures you request, no charge, glad to do it. If you ever make it to the States I'd be glad to host a tour of the ones near me, there's a bunch. Shiloh is a nice battlefield, but no more well preserved than Chickamauga. Chickamauga is the oldest and the largest of the preserved Civil War batlefields. All the artillery tubes in the park are actually Civil War pieces, of the correct types given to the Park by the Government from peices, both CS and US, stored in federal arsenals. The surplus guns ran short later on and reproduction pieces had to be used or one type of gun modified to represent another type. There are a number of Model 1841 6lb bronze field guns that had to modified to represent Model 1857 12-lb Napoleons at Gettysburg (I read somewhere that about 70 of the Gettysburg guns are reproductions).
I'm pretty familiar with most of the battlefields in Virginia, Maryland and of course Gettysburg, been to them all many times. If you do make the trip, one stop that is a must is Lexington, Virginia. Stonewall Jacksons home and burial place. Site of Washington and Lee College, and the place where Lee spent his final years. Lee's Chappel where he rests and a ton of George Washington and Lee family historical artifacts. The resting place of Lee's horse Traveller. The resting place of Jackson's Lil Sorrel's bones. Lil Sorrel's stuffed hide in the VMI Museum, the jacket and raincoat Jackson was wearing when shot at Chancellorsville. VMI where Jackson taught and many Confederate officers learned their trade. (VMI is the oldest state supported military school in the US, the Military Academy at West Point is older but that's it. VMI is the only US military school to have it's student body fight in battle, vs. graduates, this makes them the only US school to allow the fixing of bayonnets while on parade). The original guns of the Rockbridge artillery, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, a battery that figured prominently in many of the early Civil War battles in the east, are located at the base of the Jackson Statue on the VMI parade deck. Some good WWII related things, the George C. Marshall Museum, (VMI 1901), George Patton's Cadet Uniform (he attended VMI prior to his appointment to West Point), Chest Puller's Cadet Uniforms and Navy Crosses. the National D-Day Memorial is located fairly close by in Bedford, VA and the New Market Battlefield, the site of the last major confederate Civil War victory not far to the north. (more trivia, the confederate forces at New Market were commander by General John C. Breckinridge, former Vice-President of the United States. Breckinridge also commanded a Division at Chickamauga and fought at Stones River. Stones River is one of the anniversary commemorations we did that I couldn't remember earlier. It's located about an hour northwest of here in Murfreesboro, is a really small battlefield (the preserved portion) but the portion that is preserved is really well done and worth the visit. The Franklin battlefield is located west of Murfreesboro and is also worth the visit.
I'm familiar with Orchard Knob, drive past it every day on my way to work, in fact I travel through McFarland's Gap in Missionary Ridge and pass the John Ross house everyday also.


John Ross house around the time of the Chickamauga/Chattanooga battles. That's part of Missionary Ridge in the background, actually Rossville Gap.

 

That might be nice. There are probably a lot of other civil war buffs that would be interested if they saw it under Gettysburg title.

 

A friend and I were visting a number of the ACW battle fields several years ago. I think it was at New Market that we stopped near an artillery piece to discuss something. He turned around to talk to me and leaned up against the gun and almost fell over when it moved. It was a fairly decent plastic reproduction that must have weighed in at about 30 lbs. Since he was a memeber of a reenactment artillery crew he found it somewhat embarassing.

 

Indeed while it's marginally on topic here it makes it much easier to find if it has a proper title and it's own thread.

 

Civil War trivia.

Where was the last (legal) shot of the civil war fired? This wouldn't count "irregulars" who rode around robbing and killing after the surrender, just shots fired that were legal under the conventions of war.

Any takers?

 

Agreed a separate thread would be Ideal.

 

Wouldn't have been by the CSS Shenendoah in the Pacfic would it?

 

Dammit! You're half right (it was the Bering Sea, in Alaskan waters), and I thought nobody would know about it.

In June of 1865, the CSS Shenandoah entered the Bering Sea. The war was officially over, but word of that had not reached Alaska and as long as that was the case, Shenandoah’s actions would be legal under the rules of war. The Bering Sea was filled with Yankee whaling ships awaiting the migrating Right Whales which annually ran through the Bering Straits into the Arctic Ocean. It was Arctic summer with 24 hours of daylight, and this year there was little wind and the whalers slowly cruised the waters south of St. Lawrence Island.

On the 21st/22nd of June, Shenandoah was cruising along the 180th parallel. Shenandoah was a steel hulled steamer which also carried sail. The lack of wind had no effect on her, since she could just fire up her engines or even use them in conjunction with the sails and outrun anything on the water. She was armed with state of the art breech loading 32 pound Whitworth guns with octagonal barrels. These guns could fire a “bolt” (that’s what they called a Whitworth shell) accurately at ranges up to four miles. She also carried conventional smooth bore naval cannons.

She was fast, well armed and dangerous.

As I mentioned earlier, she was cruising along the date line and east of the line it was Thursday, the 22nd of June, while west of the line it was Wednesday, the 21st of June. She was capturing and burning whale ships on both sides of the line and keeping the log straight must have been hell for some midshipman. Just east of the line (22 June), she sighted the Jireh Swift of New Bedford. The tactic over the last few days had been to approach the Yankees and hail them as “Russian Man of War Petropawawka” and ask for papers. When the ship complied they’d board them, take the crew off and burn the ship. When that didn’t work, a few shots across the bow with the Whitworth guns made a convincing argument.

The master of the Jireh Swift of New Bedford was cannier than most, and so put up sail and made a run for it. The Whitworth guns came into action again. The first shot went across the stern, a few feet above the skippers head. It is said that the octagonal Whitworth “bolt” made a high pitched screaming sound when fired, so the sound of the shot going over the skippers head may have made him poop a little. I cannot confirm that, it is mere conjecture… At any rate, the warning was heeded, and Jireh Swift came about, surrendered, and was promptly burned.

That was the last actual (legal) shot of the Civil War.

The Shenandoah continued to burn whalers in the Bering Sea for some days, but had no occasion calling for the use of her guns. At some point she received a San Francisco newspaper (from a recently arrived whaler) which told of Lee’s surrender. Of course, this marked the beginning of the end for the south, but did not mark an official end to hostilities.

Shenandoah turned south to raid commerce along the California coast and somewhere in the north Pacific met a British merchant ship which confirmed the end of the war. Shenandoah put up her guns and sailed to England, her raiding days over.

In the course of her career, Shenandoah circumnavigated the globe and burned 38 Union vessels. She took not a single life and all prisoners (over 1000 in the course of the voyage) were treated hospitably and freed as soon as possible (by their own accounts).

 

There's a number of us here that have a significant interest in naval warfare. I wouldn't be surprised if another one or two got it. I won't even quible about whether or not the Berring Sea is a seperate body of water from the Pacific. Along similar lines the Med gets pretty small if you subtract the 7-8 smaller seas that are either part of it or border on it. I've often wondered if that wasn't the origin of the term 7 seas not counting the Alboran sea there are 7 smaller ones in the mostly easter med. But this is wandering even further OT so I'll stop.