Hello , I was just thinking back to when I was about 7 { 1954 } in Coventry and finding what I called " bullets " . They were 2 of them approx 4inches long by about 1 inch diameter and seemed of cast iron . I remember throwing them at the garage wall to try to make them go bang ! I am wondering what they were fired from ? There was an AA battery a few hundred yards away in WW2 or maybe they were from Luftwaffe ? . I have just read an article about memories of Coventry by an 80 yr old man who says that our local pub which is only 80 yds from my house was used as a depot for unexploded bombs ! I am wondering if he means shell cases or fallen ordnance ? He mentions it was guarded as he and his little friends tried to pinch them !The people of Coventry say they took great relief in hearing the AA batteries firing all night in that terrible night of the blitz and thought they were giving the Luftwaffe hell . I have never heard of any damage or injuries etc from falling ordnance but the amount fired that night it makes you wonder where it went ? I would welcome your thoughts on this please , thank you . Regards Alan
Due to the random nature of falling ordinance, much of it fails to explode,...... whatever was used as an explosive inside the shell may be a determining factor of how it will react to bumps and disturbance during it's "storage" in its unexploded state. If it is an explosive mixture that degrades it may become more sensitive to disturbance as time goes by. Sometimes the secretions of decaying explosives actually may result in a kind of unstable nitro glycerin type of ooze. Old remnants of such things as "cluster bombs" and other ordinance that landed unexploded results in hundreds of civilian casualties every year in countries that long ago have ceased to have any bombing or fighting, similarly such things as unretrieved land mines also kill a surprising number of children or otherwise maims them badly if not killing them. A shell may be bounced off a garage wall and not be explosive until it's contents degrade enough and then may become hypersensitive to the lightest blow. I would caution anyone who finds unspent ordinance to call a bomb disposal unit....most police forces(or sheriffs) in the U.S. have resources they contact that may help them handle such items. I can assure you that if you managed to detonate a shell filled with modern explosive materials(plastic types).....you cannot stand far enough away to avoid injury or death, if throwing the item to detonate it. I have seen things at flea markets that give me the creeps.....understanding how demilling companies and sometimes the U.S. Army engaged in demilling shells using a "washout" method that was later found to leave an explosive coating on the shell itself that would become hypersensitive to blows or drilling contact. People were nearly killed finding out the lack of proper demilling had caused this. I ask what may be setting on desks today from that approach used in the past? I was employed as a technician at a demilling facility and you would be surprised how few people we have today who actually know how they must handle "old ordinance" due to the many compounds and styles of manufacture that have been done over time. There are endless stacks on some bases of "old and questionable" explosive devices the government has not had enough budget to demill and get rid of. The military and manufacturing specialists that knew how to handle these items are retiring and getting out of the work force each day.....we also have lost many ordinance specialists to the IED's in Iraq and Afghanistan so there are few who know a lot about ordinance construction and design left today. The bomb disposal unit will not take things apart in normal circumstances, but will usually explode items that are dangerous, to dispose of the danger. A demilling company will take things apart to recycle explosives, shells and casings making use of the metals in some form of recycling unless it is unfeasible to do so. Why take a chance with unexploded items? It is not worth the risk to have and possess these items if you consider losses of others or yourself by keeping something that is "questionable".
I remember hearing a story about an individual finding an ACW cannon shell. He took it into his mobile home (for what ever reason) and then fortunately had to do something outside. A short time later the shell went off demolishing his mobile home. Now this probably happened a few decades ago but ....
I remember when I was an ROTC cadet at summer camp at Ft. Riley, KS. Before maneuvers they cautioned us that the area we were using was an old impact area c. WWI and WW2. Well, one day during a break, a bunch of us were sitting and standing under some cottonwoods for shade. One of us, started kicking an object somewhat sticking out of the ground. Towards the end of the break someone took a look at what the person had been kicking. Turned out it was an unexploded mortar bomb. I think we may have gotten real lucky about that one.
Thanks for replies and excuse my ignorance. Do you think the 4inch by 1 inch cast iron projectile was from an AA battery or maybe a Luftwaffe cannon ? Would it just be solid metal that hit the planes or would it have explosive inside . I imagine when you fire a handgun it is only the bullet which does the damage and does not explode , would that have been the same ? Regards Alan
1" ~= 25mm so I'd assume it could be anything from 20mm up to 30mm from your description. My bet would be a 20mm from a plane be it Luftwaffe or RAF. Most 20mm rounds used for air to air combat were indeed explosive although some were soldid shot. If you look on some of the tables here you might be able to identify some of the possibliities: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotables.htm Looking at the pictures at: http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo3.htm and http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo4.htm the 1" by 4" would seem to fit fairly close to to most of the 20mm rounds Do you happen to remember the shape of the nose and or any colors or markings? That might allow some sort of identificatioin.
Well it was 60 yrs ago but I think it was just bullet shape and quite hefty for a 7 yr old and very rusty and seemed like cast iron . I remember showing my Dad and uncle , who were both ex army and they were quite matter of fact about it . I thought maybe the Luftwaffe were firing at the AA battery and searchlights ? or maybe just falling ordnance . Regards Alan
Since this was an estimate based on a memory from several decades previous I figured there was some considerable "wiggle" room. At least a cursory survey indicated that 20mm were much more common than 25mm or even 30mm for British AAA, British planes, and German planes especially over Britain. I guess there's a chance that there could have been some US AAA near there as well but the 20mm still seems the most likely to me.
I believe German HE 20mm projectiles had a decay fuse that exploded it before it hit the ground. In the BoB the German 20mm guns were low velocity, relying on the explosive content of those shells (minegeschoss). A few were incendiary. Only a very few British fighters used 20mm in "The Battle" and these weren't a great success at the time. Even then, most fighter combat took place somewhere else than over urban areas so as to limit blue on blue incidents from friendly AA. Since most bombing of urban areas was from high altitudes that would preclude light AA, it is probably more likely that these projectiles came after the BoB era. Or...perhaps they were some part of German dropped ordinance.
If the rounds were fired from a plane flying at say 3,000m and fired horizontally it would take it ~25 seconds to hit the ground. Assuming 700 m/s muzzle velocity (the slowest of the German rounds found at http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/ammotable2.htm) and with the plane flying at say 360 km/hr = 100 m/s the round will have covered someting under 20 km perhas 15 or so. How close did the defenders come to the cities?
Thank you for replies, certainly food for thought , I wished I had kept them now . I probably swopped them for something else . As an extra question please , I understand Spitfires and Hurricanes fired .303 bullets . Would these be explosives or would they just rely on the projectile hitting vital parts of enemy plane ? Regards Alan
Regular rifle caliber bullets of that era (303 and 7.9X57) were too small to hold any worthwhile explosive amount. However, the British had the DeWilde incendiary bullet that allegedly was quite effective. It was pretty much a case that 20 mm was the smallest projectile that could hold an effective amount of explosive as well as a proper fuse.
