Disgusting behavior from the US President and the UK PM.

Look at all that I've been missing!!!

You know there is a new Ebola strain outbreak in Africa. While were at it lets just blame Putin for that too.....

 

Not that, but only the attacks against the Chechens, Georgians, Estonians (by Internet), Ukrainians, Tatars - added with the continuous occupation of East-Moldavia... Who shall be the next "lucky" ones...?

 

That article is full of tripe, if that's what their publishing I have no interest in reading any of their articles.

1) "He was there, in fact, as the head of state of the great power that had done far more than the United States and Britain combined ..."

I'm sorry to inform the author, that the Communist dictatorial state that was the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is no more. But therein lies Putin's agenda.

All the name-calling and cauterwalling in that article... Truly the worst kind of Journalism.

 

Chechens are a local matter.

Georgia is the one responsible for war (Europe has already claimed this)

Not familiar with any wars in Ukrainian where Russian troops are involved in....

Estonia??

 

As were before the Finns, the Estonians, the Latvians, the Lithuanians, the Poles, the Ukrainians, the Moldavians, the Georgians, the Azeris, the Armenians, the Kirgisians, the Uzbeks, the Kazaks, the Tatars... The Chechens have every right to have their independence too in their own country - occupied by murderous Russia.

Not true, and Europe has not claimed such a thing.

"A European Union investigation stated that the conflict began with a large-scale Georgian military operation against Tskhinvali, but noted that "a violent conflict had already been going on before in South Ossetia" and Georgian offensive was a "not proportionate" response to pre-war South Ossetian attacks. The report could not confirm the claimed (by Russia) attack on Russian peacekeepers. The report further stated that Russian citizenship, conferred to the vast part of Abkhaz and Ossetians can not be considered legally binding and as a result, the defence of Russian citizens living abroad should not have been used as a reason for starting military action by Russia. The report stated that further Russian advance into Georgia proper was unjustified. The commission found that all parties involved in the conflict had violated international law.

Other reports and analysts noted the pre-war South Ossetian attacks against Georgians and Russian preparations/build-up prior to the Georgian military offensive against Tskhinvali, and blamed Russia for the war."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Responsibility_for_the_Russo-Georgian_War

The war in Georgia was planned and executed by Russia, in a typical Russian form. Georgian troops never left the country, where the Russians attacked. The hole war was/is only one incident in the long conflict, which Russia started already in the early 90's, when the ex-KGB politicians in Abhasia and South-Ossetia, backed by Russia, wanted to keep their positions after the collaps of the USSR.

Maybe you don't follow the current news? Or maybe you only believe the propaganda of your employer...?'

To freshen up your memory: the Russian occupation of Crimea, part of independent Ukraine, by Russian Army and the Russian soldiers and arms in Eastern Ukraine fighting against the Ukrainian defence forces as we write.

FYI: the freedom of press in Russia is 148th out of 180 countries, according to "Reporters Without Borders". No surprise then that you are poorly informed...

http://rsf.org/index2014/en-index2014.php

In 2007 the Russians made massive net attacks against several Estonian officies and medias in so-called "Bronze Warrior" -statue (a symbol of soviet occupation of Estonia) incident. They also besieged the Estonian Embassy in Moscow and even harassed the Estonian ambassador. Naturally the official Russia was totally "innocent" for the attacks...

 

Sure sure Karjala. I think we are all familiar with your enthusiasm towards Russia...

Chechnya unlike all others which you just mentioned has always been part of Russia and never a country in it's own....

As for Georgia....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/georgia/6247620/EU-blames-Georgia-for-starting-war-with-Russia.html

And let's put this to rest shall we?

You will not get a rise out of me.

 

Its actually widely accepted the Russian forces have joined on with the Rebels in the Ukraine. Perhaps not in an official capacity but they seem mighty bloody organized and supplied for some 'mob' that just crossed the border.

As for Georgia, Did you forget to mention the IED's and mortar shelling being done by the South Ossetia? Yes Georgia may have acted before Russia except under UN law since they were under attack they were allowed to and in this instance they actually used the appropriate level of response, They didnt go over board.

 

I don't think anyone can deny that Russian isn't helping the rebels and so what? The U.S. Is helping Kiev in fact several US service men already lost their lives and General Randy Allen has been wounded. Black Water is also participating in the conflict.

It has been concluded that Georgia started the war. South Ossetia was invaded prior to that the Georgian shelled the capital killing a dozen Russian peacekeepers who were there in accordance to a treaty signed between the two nations and France a decade earlier....

Russia warned the world of Georgian troops amassing along the border. How did you think Russia was going to respond?

Russia won't allow a NATO member to border her and will soon start to push back. Will the NATO??

 

Estonia and Latvia are NATO members and border Russia.
Are they next?

 

No but they have been for a while now.

This situation is not white and black but very complex and delicate.

 

Actually it has been concluded that both Georgia and Russia played a part in starting the war, Georgia by over stepping and Russia by trying to bully the smaller nation.

And as for the shelling, That had been going on for weeks prior to the invasion which was escalating from both sides. Georgia responded against a single location not all of South Ossetia. Russia responded not by deploying troops to just South Ossetia (Peace keepers as Putin likes to call them-what a laugh) but by actually invading Georgia. That same report you use to justify the Georgia was in the wrong also criticized Russia and concluded they didn't have any legal right to expand the conflict to a full scale invasion.

 

We are all unfortunately much too familiar with the Kremlin propaganda - also in this forum...

"Always"? You seem to have quite a short memory, which seems to be a general habbit in Russia (Crimea etc.)...

Chechnya was finally occupied by Russia in 1859, after several centuries of fighting and periods of independence, so "always" seems to be more like 150 years. And if previous official and internationally recognised state was some kind of requirement for independence then e.g. Finland would not have been qualified!

Some quotes from you source:

"...
Russia's military response to Georgia, the EU investigators found, was initially defensive, and legal, but quickly broke international law when it escalated into air bombing attacks and an invasion pushing into Georgia well beyond South Ossetia.
"...
While blaming "all sides" for war crimes, the EU report singled out Russian backed South Ossetian paramilitaries for "systematic looting and destruction of ethnic Georgian villages".
"Several elements suggest the conclusion that ethnic cleansing was indeed practised against ethnic Georgians in South Ossetia," it said.
...
In conclusion, the EU report, which runs to 1139 pages in three volumes, blamed the roots of the conflict on Russia's attempts to dominate its small neighbour and Georgia's sometime erratic responses to Moscow's aggression."

Russia still occupies parts of Georgia - as well as part of Moldavia and Ukraine (and e.g. Finland...) - so there's no reason to put anything to rest!

Are you suggesting, that we had the same profession? Unfortunately Finland is much too amateurish for that - unlike Russia...!

 

One has to see the irony in one hating the very country which gave the other her freedom. Had the Bolshevik revolution not succeeded Finland would still be part I the Russian empire.

Put it to rest Karjala....

 

Wait, you can't argue that the Soviet Union has been beneficial to Finland. Did you forget about the whole invasion thing? As for this Ukraine situation, you can't expect Kiev to just roll over and let its country be split apart. The Russians are being way too aggressive in this situation, and Ukraine has every right to keep its country together. Don't forget the lessons taught to us by way of Hitler and the Sudetenland.

 

Never said it was beneficial. What I said was had there been no Soviet Union, Finland would have remained part of the Russian empire.

If we are to judge what is going on in Ukraine then we must judge from the beginning of this conflict not from the part of Russia stepping in.

Ukraine is a mess because of Ukraine not Russia.

 

Previously you were denying Russian interference...

Actually Russia is not only "helping the rebels", but is de facto the other side, which has created the hole war - once again! Those "rebels" are either Russians soldiers from Russia or local idiots/hooligans agitated by Putin. Without Russia there wouldn't be any war in Ukraine. Other countries are only responding to yet another Russian aggression.

There hasn't been Blackwater since 2008...

No, that still hasn't been concluded, as you have been explained and shown several times. The "war" period was only one part of the long conflict, which Russia started already early 90's. Again, without Russian aggression there hadn't been any war.

Yes, Georgia was hot-headed enought to fall into the Russian provocation trap(s) and started a limited domestic security operation against the Russian backed separatists. Russia naturally used that as a casus belli (in a typical Russian way) and launched massive attack against Georgia - on Georgian soil.

There was/is no such thing as "Russian peacekeepers". Only UN has peacekeepers. "Killing" of those dozen guys is only one of Russian lies, which nobody has seen any evidence of.

The World was much more worried of Russian two decades long occupation of Georgian areas BEFORE the war period and amassing of additional Russian attack forces behind Georgian border - for a good reason!

Why - there are already several NATO members bordering Russia? And NATO is not a participant here. Russia is - the main one!

Plus Norway, Lithuania and Poland. And of course Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey bordering the Black Sea.

It's very black and white: Russia = the aggressor, Ukraine = the victim

 

"the very country which gave the other her freedom"

If you actually believe that Soviet Russia "gave" Finland her independence you are totally lost - although Finland did invent such a statement (=lie) for the USSR to prevent soviets messing with our independence after the latest wars.

In reality Finland declared herself independent - against Russian will - on 6th Dec 1917. Lenin could not prevent it and so acknowledged it in late December. That did not stop him after only one month starting an unsuccesful and bloody war on 28th Jan 1918 against Finland with the Finnish rebellious Reds, which he agitated, armed and supported with troops and officers. (= Ukraine today...)

The soviets tried to occupy Finland again two more times in 1939-40 and 1941-44 - and failed again.

So - thanks very much for such great "gifts"...

Yes - bolshevik coup (it was not a revolution, the one in March (February) was) indeed was a perfect time for Finland and many, many other suppressed nationalities. We shall never know what would have happened without it. Most likely Russia would have disintegrated anyway, sooner or later.

See my answer above.

Russia is the very reason there is a conflict! No Russian involvement from the beginnning = no conflict!

Ukraine is a mess because of both Ukraine and Russia. There's a war in Ukraine only because of Russia!

 

I do not understand this rational of thinking. Yanokovich (a democratically elected and recognized by the world as the president of Ukraine) was overthrown in a military coupe sponsored by foreign powers and Russia is to blame?

What happened to the president of Ukraine was illegal and remains illegal in all democracies.

The people that came to power were done so without Eastern Ukraine (a population close to 8-9 million).

The people in power work along side Praviy sector and Svaboda (Neo-Nazi).

American troops are on the ground and have been from the day the new Govt. Came to power.

Blackwater does exist it simply changed it's name to Academi and is quite active in Eastern Ukraine.

These people are revolting against a govt they find illegitimate and a govt that is not willing to compromise on any of it's own peoples demands.

Why is the west allowed to help Western Ukrainians but Russia is frowned upon when helping the Eastern Ukrainians?

Why is it ok for NATO nations to involved in Lybia, Iraq, Yemen, Syria, Georgia, Egypt and Ukraine twice but when Russia starts helping it's bordering neighbor these same nations start to panic?

 

If we are to judge it from the start then we can start from the SU when they relocated large numbers of ethnic Russians to various other nations. So by Russia relocating their population they have caused divides within other nations that has culminated into at time open conflict.

As for Ukraine, The protests had been largely peaceful after Viktor Yanukovych elected to go towards the Russian deal over the EU deal. At the same time Russia also applied economic pressure against the Ukraine and started a propaganda campaign against the EU, Russia utilizing their power to dominate the smaller nation hardly makes them the good guys "You join us Russkies or we will bankrupt you"... The protests that became violent only became that way after Viktor and his party that dominated the parliament passed law's to repress the protests.

Odd part, Russia was calling for tougher action against the protests (Yes Russia such a nice friendly nation they are dictating how another should respond to peaceful protests) which surprisingly only occurred after Russia transferred $2 billion, Coincidence? I think not.

Face the fact's, Russia isn't the good guy here, They have used economic power to force what they want and when the people didn't agree with that and protested against it the applied pressure for use of force to be applied to the peaceful protesters. Russia is nothing more then a bully, Cant get what they want so they try and force it except this time it's not a small nation, Its a large nation that can't be swept under the rug like the Georgian conflict.

 

We are aware of you not understanding...

When a president of a country orders murders of peaceful demonstrators he looses his legitimacy. In every normal democracy such a president would have resigned himself. Russia tried to keep him in power - and encouraged him to use excessive violence. He is not only a murderer but also a big time thief of state funds.

There was a revolution of the people in Ukraine, not a "military coup".

That's called a majority. It means, that the views of the most of the people matter more than the views of the small minority - especially when those views are in reality only views of another, imperialistic wanna-be superpower.

Those so-called Neo-Nazies are a very small minority without any real influence or power. Talking about them is only Russian propaganda.

Hardly American "troops". A handful of military advisors is not "troops" - unlike the Russian soldiers actually fighting in Eastern Ukraine.

It's still not called Blackwater. "Quite active" = what Russia wants us to believe.

That government is actually legitemate now, what ever Russia wants some (= not many) East Ukrainians to believe.

Ukrainian government "not willing to compromise" is only Russian propaganda. It has been willing to compromise all the time. However it does not mean, that Russia should be allowed to dictate Ukrainian politics in the Eastern Ukraine. "Own people's demands" here = Putin's demands.

Because only the West is helping. Russia is the origin of the war and guilty for the sufferings of Ukrainians - especially in the East.

Because NATO nations are the ones helping. Because NATO nations are democracies and act after mutual decisions made by democraticly elected governments.

Russia on the other hand is an imperialistic dictatorship, which only acts to satisfy her own selfish and imagined interests - and shoots herself in the foot over and over again. Russia is not helping but starts, escalates and continues wars.