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Why was the first version of the panther named D and then later A?

Discussion in 'WWII General' started by judge death, Nov 19, 2015.

  1. judge death

    judge death Member

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    I have a question about my fave tank of world war 2: The panther which I cant find an answer on:
    The first version of the Panther which entered combat at kursk in 1943 was named D version and by logic next version should be E or later letter but instead they named it: A version.
    So how come they broke tradition and named it A instead of a later letter?

    So far I havent managed to find any info about this choice my guess is either that they chose that to say this is the real panther and make people forget the D version which were famous for its breakdowns and creating bad morale.

    Or:

    The D stands for the maker of the tank or its a prototype tank and will later have a new name/letter for its version, like the first Tiger tanks were H version standing for henchsel.( sorry for the spelling)

    Does anyone here know how come they named the panthers in this order:
    D-A-G?
     
    Otto likes this.
  2. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    I though it was A-D-A-G.
     
  3. judge death

    judge death Member

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    What i know even the prototype version was named D, and the version they used at kursk had the name: D1 but most just call it D. Never heard it was named A at kursk before.
     
  4. Pacifist

    Pacifist Active Member

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    From "The Hardware of WWII" by Eric Grove, Christopher Chant, David Lyon and Hugh Lyon. http://www.amazon.com/Military-Hardware-World-War-II/dp/0517457792/ref=sr_1_12?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1447969913&sr=1-12

    Starting September of '42 the first 20 prototype vehicles were produced under the nomenclature Ausf A in order to get production underway. These were different from the Ausf A produced after Kursk.
    In January '43 mass production began on the Ausf D.
    In early '43 the original Ausf A were reclassified as Aust D1. With the mass production models reclassified as Ausf D2.
    After Kursk the new production model confusingly called the Ausf A began production.
    New Ausf A turrets were also fitted to Ausf D hulls until Ausf D hull production ceased in November '43.
    Plans were in place to simplify construction with an Ausf F design but the war ended before production could begin.
    The Panther G entered production in early '44 and continued until the end of the war.
     
  5. judge death

    judge death Member

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    Thanks! But no explanation why they named them in that order, especielly after kursk?
     
  6. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    The prototypes were VK30.02(DB) & VK30.02(MAN). The pre-production run was the Ausf. A, later these were re-designated D1.
     
  7. Takao

    Takao Ace

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    As to why? It is all rumor and speculation. I can't recall ever reading a solid answer.
     
  8. Fred Wilson

    Fred Wilson "The" Rogue of Rogues

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    VK = Versuchs "Konstruktion or Kfz" = test or trial "construction or vehicle" Correct?

    "German vehicles and devices have sometimes German names or cryptic letter combinations.

    Some things are nearly impossible to translate, so ether i do the english expression, or a "literal" translation so you can figure out a comparable meaning.
    I ripped appart some words which are written together so that you can understand the akronyms better."

    Cont... a good read at: http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/152979-german-vehicle-name-explanations/
     
  9. von Poop

    von Poop Waspish

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    Shooting from the hip - not entirely sure the reason is really known.
    Will check later, but I believe the D was developed as the A, but the various issues found with it delayed expected entry to service. Rusty on this, but my impression was that possibly the 'A' was changed to 'D' as it was expected to be delayed, but then what might now be termed 'urgent operational requirements' meant an incompletely polished vehicle was rushed to the East - hence a D took to the field before an A, even though it was an A...

    Like I say; hip shooting from rusty memory, but I've a feeling we've been here before and the whole business is still inconclusive.
    I don't quite believe the assorted typo/phone conversation reasons sometimes cited. Not very German.
    Manufacturer references maybe more convincing.

    Doubtless (hopefully) MK or similar will be along with some clarity. In the meantime I shall quite enjoy flicking through Spielberger for the first time in a long while.




    (OH, and nice username, JD. Don't JUUUUUDDGE MEEEEEEE. Etc.)
    View attachment 23326
     

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  10. Poppy

    Poppy grasshopper

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    My book has PzKpfw V Panther Battle Tank.
    Panzerkampfwagen V, or SdKfz 171.
     
  11. Otto

    Otto GröFaZ Staff Member WW2|ORG Editor

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    Classic case of a good question leading to a good thread. Anything involving AFVs, Judge Death, and actually causing Von Poop to turn to books on tanks is a recipe for good WW2 custard.
     
  12. judge death

    judge death Member

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    Happy you like it :)
     
  13. bronk7

    bronk7 Well-Known Member

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    good call Takao...from my WW2 Tanks by G.Forty, it says ''first model was known as Ausf A'' then later changed to D..Von Poop and Pac also state this....pre production A tanks also known as the Null series--0
    .could it be for security reasons?? to make Allies think this wasn't the first model?..a decoy?.why skip B and C? then from A to G... I thought I recall the Allies doing something like this...I see the PZK 3 and 4 went through the alphabet sequentially..but PZK 6 Tiger 1 started with H, then to E ?? H was for Henschel, the manufacturer, though...?

    here's a link to Tanks Encyclopedia ..eye candy..and says renamed from A to D to avoid confusion ??
    http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/nazi_germany/Panzer-V_Panther.php

    Forty also says production was rushed creating transmission and steering faults because the parts were designed for use on the lighter, less powerful AFVs...George Forty also states, as members here do, A - D - A --G .....
     

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