Sword Beach to Bremen., A Veterans tale. Sapper

hello . ive only just started reading your thread but wanted to say thankyou sapper for sharing your memorys with us

 

Not for me please.
Everything that I post is dedicated to the young men from all services that paid the price for freedom, That is the whole purpose, to ensure, for as long as possible, that the younger generation willo be made aware of what happened.

Reading that back makes me sound like a stuffy old Buffer! Not so! I am pleased that folk find it interesting.

I must get round to writing more, but have been rather busy. In my 80th year, war disabled, giving talks, and little bit of filming for the BBC, have left me very tired.
Best Wishes to you all
Sapper

 

And you, Brian........

Regards,
Gordon

 

Well, I know more than one case in which people's eight decade is the busiest of their lives! Look at Ronald Reagan, Dwight Eisenhower and Winston Churchill!

Or look at Mr. Gorbachev nowadays in his ninth decade!

By the way, did you get my mail, Brian?

 

Certainly did get your mail and sent a reply, something odd has happened to the mail here lately.If it does not turn up, Then Thanks again! You lot are really nice friends, I am pleased that we came to know each other.
Cheers.
Brian

 

It’s such a long time. But 60 years ago, about now, the Battle of Normandy was nearly over; it was a savage and bloodthirsty affair. Not for the meek and mild of this World.

The culmination of this battle, was for all intents and purposes, the Falaise Pocket. My company happened to be at the back of the "Bag" driving the German forces towards the 'pure hell' that awaited them as they ran “helter skelter” through the narrowing "Neck" of this mighty trap

In that savage enclosure, this huge iron trap, could be seen the sheer murderous, and overwhelming bloody carnage of "Falaise"

For all the detractors of ‘Monty’ Now came the “Payback” for after his patience, his steady strategy of pursuing the “Downgrading” of the SS Panzers. It all paid off in the devastating culmination of that much criticised strategy.

Now! Descended on the enemy a colossal hammer blow. Here could be seen the full implications of the Victory in Normandy. Death stalked the country roads and lanes of central and Eastern Normandy. For those inside, there was no hiding place.

The utter ruthlessness of the G.O.C. of the Allies, in prosecuting the death and destruction of this mass of SS Panzers and Panzer Grenadiers. An army put to death in that great trap. Savaged mercilessly by artillery, and by Air, where the rocket firing Typhoons took a terrible toll

The stench of death, the mass of bodies, and parts of bodies, the masses of armour and artillery completely destroyed, the horses that had run amok under this wall of drenching fire, from both land and air. All these scenes of indescribable horror went on for miles. Yet, we only observed that area that we chased the Enemy through. It was not possible to see all of it.
Still! Would you believe? After this total vindication of his strategy, The utter ruthlessness of his Victory ahead of the planned programme, Monty was still criticised.
Sapper

 

Brian,

Speaking of Falaise...curious about one thing...in your experience, how effective were the Typhoons on Axis armour? I hear people rant and rave that they were the nightmare of the panzer corps but some others say they only achieved single digit accuracy per sorte...I know you are not into statistics but can you give a measure of how effective they were?

Lets give an example...falaise, were the axis armour squashed by sheer numbers or were they accurate to a plane?

BDS

 

Hi

Typhoons? very accurate, I have heard the rocket salvo was damn near the equal of a battle wagon broadside.
What struck me most forcibly was that the "Tiffys" could take out anything...I have been in a position where the "Tiffys" have come in low over our heads and let go their rockets to strike in front of us, at the moment of firing the plane seemed to stand still in the air...And made one hell of a noise!

The complete destruction of the German armour in the Falaise pocket was, it is fair to say, a combination of all arms.

But the Tiffys played a major role, I have seen a tiffy strike lift a heavy tank onto its side. They took a terrible tole of the Panzers in that cauldron.

It was a sight of complete chaos and destruction. some of the sights weree horrific.

The Typhoons were admirably suited in their role of destroying the fleeing Panzers and associated troops. Bloody carnage! The Typhoons effectiveness? Top class, take out anything, I am not surprised that they could only strike a single unit at times .The Bosche knew that exposure meant certain death to their Panzers.
Brian

 

I hate to disgree but that is at odds with the British evaluation of German tanks losses carried out after the battle of Normandy. While the TAC may have been effective against softskins and rail targets they were not capable of taking out large numbers of German tanks. The study found that only one Tiger I could definetly be deemed as destroyed by air weapons while only 6% of Panthers lost in NOrmandy were to air attacks. 80% of the Panthers lost were due to abadonment or destruction by crews. The british also found that the Typhoon had a hit rate of only 4% with its rockets.

However the psycological impact was immense both to degrading the German morale and bolstering that of the Allied troops. Air attacks were also effective against prepared positions.

 

RedBaron is right...and I say that even though I'm a great Typhoon fan !

Due to its design, the Typhoon needed to attack in a shallow, not steep, dive, and those early RP's were just not that accurate. Don't forget, though, that that battery of 20mm Hispano's was pretty useful, too.

As with that other classic ground-attack aircraft of WWII, the Suka, the 'psychological' point shouldn't be overlooked. The sound of the Typhoon's Sabre engine at full power was said to be terrifying ( something we can't hear today, alas...) and being 'under the guns'', both RPs and 20mm, must have been a stressful experience for exhausted soldiers fleeing Normandy....

The Typhoons played a major role in the battle, took very severe losses while doing so, and rightly will always be synonymous with 'Rocket Firing Typhoons At The Falaise Gap' !

 

Quote:

" The study found that only one Tiger I could definetly be deemed as destroyed by air weapons"
------------------------------------------------

And that was a Tiger II in the Bulge!
The count of the 'air destroyed' Tigers missed completely the SS 101 Tigers (4?) bombed and destroyed on 15/6/44 and the '503' Tigers (at least 4) desroyed by bombers on 18/7/44.

 

M Kenny,

I was talking about TAC not the bombers used in Goodwood. Tactical Air Support... Typhoons etc... Not dropping 1000lb bombs on Tigers I think even the British could work out that wasnt a Typhoon...

Jeez...

 

BDS I am sorry mate I wrote a proper answer but it did not upload. Will try again later
Brian

 

If the tiffy's did not take out the Panzers? then what in heavens name destroyed them? I saw all the paraphernalia of war, armour of all sorts destroyed,some of trying to climb up the walls. Utter and complete detruction, if not the tiffy's, then who? The destructive power of a tiffy broadside was enormous.
Sapper

 

Such terrible destruction. So many young dead, strewn on the lanes and roads. cataclysmic destruction. It would be interesting to know just how many of the Das Reich SS Panzer escaped with their lives,

The instigators of the Orador sur glan atrocities, did those that died along the way have to meet up with their victims?
Sobering thought is'nt it.
Sapper

 

From Zetterling...

'The division (Das Reich) was not surrounded in Falaise; it counterattacked towrads the pocket to enable the surronded units to escape. On 4th September 1944 it was reported to be short of 7,000 men, but this report seems to have been made in haste, without a complete picture of the situation. Nine days later it had 12,357 officers and men. This did not include the tanks regiment. Thus it seems the division was far from destroyed after the battles in Normandy'

As for tanks, Dar Reich had only six operational of all types on the 28th August 1944...

 

I have a FP letter of a soldier with 1./SS-Panzer-Regiment 2, written on 6 August 1944. Nothing about the fighting though. He mostly talks about the lack of money and what he can't do. But imagine what he went through ( at the time when he wrote this letter...

 

Fritz Langanke speaks of Falaise in his memories. He was responsbile for knocking out 2 Polish Shermans in his Panther on eihter side of the hill they were trying climb out and through to open the correidor.....

 

This must have been Hill 262, the 'Maczuga'.

 

Red Baron.
That was a snide remark "Even the British could tell it was not a Typhoon"

Just remember this, we beat the crap out of the Krauts utterly in Normandy. At first you outnumbered us and had the Panzers close at hand.

The British took on your Das Reich and your Number One SS Adolph Hitler Panzer and beat the crap out of them as well. Matter of fact we beat the crap out of all of them....
An angry Sapper.