Osttruppen On Normandy Beaches, Mysterious.

Does anyone else find it interesting that the people who landed on Normandy's beaches fought Nazi Ukrainian and other eastern countries right in the beach bunkers? It wasn't all Germans. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaborationism_with_the_Axis_powers

The thing that turns my gut is the fact the possibly some of these troops were prisoners from the eastern front war and were forced to fight with the Germans, then were killed by allies thinking they were Germans. Is this true?

 

The Germans had several categories of eastern Europeans in their service.

• A young male inhabitant of the parts of Belgium, France or Poland incorporated into Greater Germany could find themselves called up as "German" - or, in Poland subject to a test of whether they were German enough not to be treated as sub human slavs. Ethnic Germans from the USSR and other parts of Eastern Europe could also serve as Germans - the "Volks-deutch." Many of these could speak little German,
  
• German 1944 establishments inclujde an assignment of "hilfswillinger"- HiWis who carried out non combat activities such as cooks and (animal) drivers. These men were mainly Soviet PW and faced with the choice of working for the Germans or starving in a PoW Camp.
  
• The Germans raised legions from soviet subject nations willing to fight against what they could consider their imperial oppressors. These included Turkmans, Cossacks, Uzbecks and the baltic states.

A|ll of these are a reflection of someone's difficult personal choice, faced with stark alternatives for them and their families. There was a degree of understanding by at least the Polish forces of these choices, who were very willing to recruit Poles from PW. These is a story of one of the Paratroops captured in the Monte Cassino Abbey invited to replace some of the men lost capturing the Abbey he had defended.

Those that survived would receive little mercy from the USSR, and may settled in the West, if they could.

 

There was even a Korean amongst them : he was enrolled in the JIA when Korea was a Japanese colony, became a Soviet POW in 1939, was enrolled in the Soviet Army in 1941,became a German POW,and was enrolled in the WM.He became a US POW and I would not be surprised if he was later enrolled by the US .

The man saw a lot of the world and could later tell his grand-children a lot of stories.Baron von Münchhausen would be jealous .

 

Number of Hiwi in the PzD in the West on 1 june 1944

1 SS : 855

2 SS : 1074

12 SS : 216

2 Pz : 551

21 Pz : ?

116 Pz : 200

PzL : 254

Source : Panzer Archiv. de

 

I wouldn't call them "Nazi Ukrainians" considering many joined because they were in stalags and could either join or starve to death. If I were that hungry I'd probably join the first amry who'd offer me clothing, warm soup , free traveling to the west and a shelter. It was more like a survival instinct. Of course some joined because of ideological reasons, but many had been manipulated from the start: the Germans had offered them the mirage of an independent nation ..... As a result many deserted whe they realizd they had been told bocus. They were not always reliable troops.

The local pouplation feared them like they were the devil.

 

About one third of the infantry strength of the two static divisions (709 and 716) faced on D Day Normandy was made up of Ost truppen. Each static division received an extra three (ish) Ost Battalions to address the weakness of the six battalion infantry divisions deployed as static divisions on the Atlantic Wall.

Not all were regarded as reliable by the Germans, for example Ost Bn 642 was regarded as only useful as labour by its formation 716 division. None proved reliable in combat with the units melting to a cadre of German NCOs within hours. This was most help to the allies on Utah and Gold beaches.

Following on from skipper's comment about reliability, some of these may have melted into the mass of refugees and displaced persons in Europe in 1945. There was a serious problem with armed gangs in the British Sector.

 

In the opening scenes of Private Ryan, the two "Germans" who hold up their hands at the bunker and then get shot are saying in Czech, "Don't shoot, we're Czech." A Czech acquaintance told me that the entire audience exploded with laughter at the scene. There has never been much sympathy for those who joined the Wehrmacht or otherwise cooperated with the Germans.

 

From a French forum : Ostruppen and were they actually were !

l'ost batallion 630 (russes) , 346 ID, est au nord de Bernay en mai. il est anéanti au cours des combats de Normandie
ost btl 642 (russes), 716 ID , secteur de caen , cité pour sa belle tenu au feu au cours des combats de juin .
ost btl 649 (russes ) 709 ID , presque ile du cotentin.
ost btl 561, (russes) 709, ID , même région , engagé à cherbourg, anéanti en juin;
ost btl 600, (russes) , 243 ID, très éprouvé lors des combats pour la presqu'ile du cotentin
ost btl 635, (russes), nord de granville anéanti en juin , se bat " avec un courage étonnant malgré la pauvreté de l'armement"
ost btl 800, caucasiens du nord , 265 ID
ost btl 795 et 797 , géorgiens, 709 ID
ost btl 781 , turkistanais , 711 ID
ost btl 439, cosaques, 716 ID
ost btl 835, caucasiens du nord , 17 luftwaffen feld div
ost artillerie abteilung 621 , idem
ost btl 441, cosaques, inclus dans la 716 ID mais non en tant qu'unité organique , installé à l'ouest de grayes sur mer , subit le choc du débarquement à courseulles , anéanti en juillet vers caen.
ost btl 618, indépendant
ost btl 439, cosaques , entre caen et st lo, se bat en normandie puis est anéanti dans la poche de colmar.


16 000 hiwis :
1410 à la 77 ID
1378, 84 ID
332, 85 ID
341, 265 ID
1004, 271 ID
1514 272 ID
1560, 275 ID
1704, 276 ID
1513, 277 ID
1366, 331 ID
1786, 353 ID
90, schwere panzer abteilung 503
1055, 9 ss panzer div hohenstaufen



http://www.dday-overlord.com/forum/osttrupen-ostlegionen-compagnie-t3973.html

 

more here




http://meuse-histoire-balade.e-monsite.com/pages/namur-la-position-fortifiee-de-brialmont.html

 

Apparently his name was Yang Kyoungjong and he eventually settled in the US.

More info here...
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yang_Kyoungjong

 

That says a lot about the relations between the German and Czech population in pre-war Czechoslovakia. After all this was one of the triggers for the descent to WW2. The Czechs also expelled as many of the remaining Germans they could after the war.

 

If they were forced to fight for Germany, why would the Germans trust them to not turn their guns on their captures? Something doesn't make sense here. Maybe the ones that were prisoners didn't have guns and only did the labor?

Found the czech scene by the way
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VCbW7Gkgu2U

"Please don't shoot me, I am not German, I am Czech, I didn't kill anyone, I am Czech!"

But I also found a wikipedia article that says many Czechs joined as volunteers to fight WITH Germany in 1942 onwards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waffen-SS_foreign_volunteers_and_conscripts

It's here under history if you want to check it out

"After Germany turned East and attacked the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa, further volunteers from France, Spain, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, and the Balkans signed up to fight for the Nazi cause. In 1942, further units of non-Germanic recruits were formed.[20] Eventually units consisting of Russians, Indians, Arabs and even one with a few Britons were created. The Waffen-SS grew from three regiments to over 38 divisions during World War II.[22] By 1945, the Waffen-SS had developed into a military force with volunteers and conscripts of multiple ethnicities which were mainly from occupied Europe.[23] By that time, however, the Waffen-SS also became a shadow of its former self; having insufficient numerical strength of different divisions, harried by problems, and overwhelmed by poor-quality draftees.[24] Estimates for the maximum growth of the Waffen-SS number over 800,000 including members of the Hitler Youth who were pressured to volunteer for service.[4] After the war, the unit was declared a criminal organization for its major involvement in war crimes and for being an "integral part" of the SS.[25][26]"

 

B6266 July 1st Luftfulla Fazlitdinov,from Uzbekistan. 16th Luft Div. nr Troarn

 

Hmm. Have you heard of Stanley Milgram or served in the armed forces of any country?

I think the choices open to a Czech in 1939 were far less clear cut than with the advantage of hindsight.

 

I agree. In addition, the nationalistic attitude of the German people was very far reaching. For many men who "turned" to the military, there is a sense of belonging and comradery when in a military unit, sometimes regardless of nationality or circumstances.

 

The Osttruppen in 7. AOK as of c. 1 June 1944 were:

[SIZE=12pt]25 battalions and one battery of Ostruppen (note that there were only 78 “German” divisional grenadier battalions in the army, not including 21. Pz.Div.) – with their attachment and alternate designation where known – were:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt]I./Ost-Ausbildungs-Regt.-Mitte (275. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]II./ Ost-Ausbildungs-Regt.-Mitte (343. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]III./ Ost-Ausbildungs-Regt.-Mitte (266. Inf.-Div. – IV./GrenRegt. 897)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Reiter-Abtl. 281 (7. A.O.K., engaged in anti-Partisan operations)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Radf.Btl. 285 (265. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 439 (716. Inf.-Div. – IV./Gren.Regt. 726)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 441 (716. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 561 (709. Inf.-Div., but attached to 243. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Battr. 582 (77. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 602 (7. A.O.K., engaged in anti-Partisan operations)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 627 (77. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 629 (266. Inf.-Div. – IV./Gren.Regt . 899)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 630 (346. Inf.-Div. – I./Gren.Regt. 857)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 633 (343. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 634 (265. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 635 (Ost-Gren.Regt. z.b.V. 752)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 636 (265. Inf.-Div., minus 2 companies attached to 275. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 642 (716. Inf.-Div. – IV./Gren.Regt. 736))[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 643 (319. Inf.-Div. – IV./Gren.Regt. 582)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 649 (709. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 752 (275. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 795 (709. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 797 (709. Inf.-Div. – I./Gren.-Regt. 739, but Stab, 1., 3., and 4. Kp. were attached to Ost-Gren.-Regt. z.b.V. 752 and 2. Kp. to 243. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 798 (275. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 800 (265. Inf.-Div.)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=12pt]Ost-Btl. 823 (319. Inf.-Div. – IV./Gren.-Regt . 583)[/SIZE]