Sword Beach to Bremen., A Veterans tale. Sapper

MMM every american book says it was patton who stoped the germans and the documentary i watched they never mentioned the brits. Thankyou very much for this info sapper i need to look more in to this. I find it ironic they never mintioned the brits.

 

There are many good reference books that mention all the countries and armies which participated in WWII. You need to read many of them to get a more full picture. If you are watching documentaries, you need to view them from the different countries and realize that each nationality will put its own spin on events. Sorry, Brian, I don't mean to hijack your thread - just want to point out that panzer kampf gruppen should expand his knowledge base.

Sapper and I have exchanged posts before about the 1st Canadian Army working alongside the British, including their heavy involvement in the Falaise Pocket. My Dad, also spoke vehemently against the 12 SS. He was a man with little hatred in him, and lived congenially with German people when living in Trier in the 50s - but when it came to the 12th SS, its the only time I saw that darkness within him.

 

Thats teamwork for you. A huge task and plan thought out my Monty i believe which enabled Patton to cover many miles trapping the Germans in the Falaise Pocket where the main slaughter took place.

Americans, Canadians & the British working together. Maybe an American documentery would put an American spin on it as Patton has more glamour then Monty? Im not sure. Never let the facts get in the way of a good story.

 

Hang on... HANG ON !!! Patton had nothing to do with the Falaise pocket. Absolutely NOTHING, he was off capturing French Country side that had no enemy there anyway.

He was asked to get to the neck of the bag of the Falaise pocket, to stop the enemy escaping. But did not do it. He was more concerned with his almighty EGO capturing great swathes of empty French territory where there were no enemy.

So concerned was he with his ego, that the idiot even ran out of fuel.. And had to be rescued with supplies. Patton? Nowhere near Falaise. It was the Canadians, and the Poles, along with the British that tried so desperately to close the neck of the Falaise Pocket. Certainly not Patton.... he was nowhere to be seen.
Sorry if I spoiled some of your heroic Patton dreams. The man was a newspaper hero. When asked to get stuck into the battle. He just did not want to know...A lot of bluster and very little substance.
Sapper

 

Thanks Brain for the real facts, even i wasnt to sure what his role was as even some "facts" are mixed up for me.

I knew he ran out of fuel.

Bit Hollywood i think

Hope you are well finally some nice weather over here.

And im sorry i didnt give the Polish a mention.

 

Have a good weekend Brian.....

 

Cheers Bob. I will.
Brian

 

It's good to know that Monty was a true leader. He is one of my favorite people of the war, and it's a shame that we never really mention him here in our WWII lectures. Of course we spent a while on Patton, but Monty only got a few seconds of fame. I love your criticism of Patton, especially since over here in America we learn of the great job he did.

I love reading your posts and I thank you so much for sharing your history with us. It means so much and I thank you so much for all you have done in your life. You are a true hero!

 

Hi Andy Not my words about Patton but his American commanders description.

What is seldom known about, was that the British Army took on the Panzer's, mostly SS around the City of Caen, to enable to USA to take the Cherbourg peninsula, and then to break out into the French Country side.

That mean that we would gather Th SS around y=us and take the brunt of that armoured force.
To that end, the mighty American army only had half a panzer div against them, while we had the other seven and a half panzer's to deal with at that time.

Not generally known, but absolutely true. What made it worse was that the USA army had gathered for that break out, when their air force came over and bombed the bloody lot! That put things back, while we continued to take on the gathered panzers around Caen and the Goodwood operations.

I was oine of those around Caen. Marvelous what you find out at times....
Sapper

 

I think I heard about the bombers bombing their own men, but wow I never knew about the rest. That's truly amazing! It never ceases to amazing me how strong the British were in WWII, to be able to fight all over the world and still have the strength to push on. Heroes all of them.

Thanks again for your account!

 

If I am correct it was Bradlys army that was at falise. Also I am not a patton fan. He only cared about fame relly don't belive me than read about sicily. Because of him and Mongomerys rivlry the entire damn german army escaped in front of their faces.Thus causing thousands of unnessery lives in italy not to mention time.So long for the famous saying "A pint of sweat saves a gallon of blood".

 

its all a long time ago. 65 years for this old vet. Ideas have changed. Hollywood has created a legend all of its own. We get the "We saw the film so it must be true" syndrome.

Its rather like Sword Beach. Always claimed by the Americans as "An easy landing" Nothing of the sort. It was made easier by training. By British Army discipline and determination.

And by the men carrying on with their tasks as everything about them went wrong.
BY the way this is NOT an anti American posting. We fought alongside them. Great lads.

Oddly enough Sword was far and away, the most heavily defended area on the whole of the Normandy invasion coast. Nowhere was there an array of defences that surrounded the British. Hillman was 650 metres by 450 metres of mines barbed wire artillery and Mc gun cross fire.... And all that out officer got for opening it up was a Croix de Geurre.
Sapper

 

The commonwelth were in deed fighting half or more of the ss armor leaving us with the panzer leher division. so we had a cake walk carentan,charborug,and the bocage country was esair also because of this.

 

Brian,
How did the French running off to free Paris affect you? I read that originally Paris was to be bypassed because there was no "militarily vital importance" there. Then De Gualle told Leclerc to go liberate the capital so he could set up his new gov't elliminating having an occupation gov't there.
I read that once committed it force Ike to send supplies and reinforcement to support the op. Supplies that could have helped the push toward Germany to end the war quicker. Is this something that you were familliar with, or did it pass without notice to the "grunt"in the field?
John

 

I hope I do not upset anyone here? To be honest we never heard of Leclerc or the free French? Not a word about them or what they got up to.....Never seen them...

I must try to find out what battles they took part in? All British troops were strictly forbidden to enter Paris. NO entry for the British..Seriously !
That a few did get there I have no doubt, but the orders we had were quite plain. No British troops to be allowed inthe Paris liberation. or celebration. Paris was to be en entirely French and American "Do"

I do not know anything about the French troops. Nor do I know anything about what they did...... WE genuinely were not aware that there were French troops over there. They certainly did not come near us when the crap was flying around.

Having said that. There were not many around at Pegasus,and other places where the rough stuff went on. Now a great many claim to have been there
Sapper

 

Brain,
Thanks for your reply, that is very interesting that you all were "kept out", I wonder what the politics in that were? Maybe it was Churchills distrust of DeGaulle?

 

Typicly paris wasent important their was very minor fighting as the germans with drew hitler ordered the city destroyed but the commander did not want to be the destroyer of paris the what they say the mos beutifle city on earth. For the truth inmy opinion paris wasent important the americans should had help the british advance towards holland and helped the british xxx corp (if I got it right) in market gardend.

 

I cannot be sure, but if I recall correctly, it was the Americans that prevented us from being in Paris. My memory is usually pretty good.

I recall there was a deep feeling of real resentment at the time. Biut later we took Brussels.
sapper

 

Is it wierd that the commenwealth/british do the fighting we get the reward example thx to the polish and candians and the brits some american units from bradly the german were annihalted at falise largly thx to the commenwelth and monte casino thx to the polish but we got the reward but we paid dearly for that move.

 

I think they were trying to keep you away from all that French Champagne Brian!!