Balance of armour in France

On paper, which side had a better armoured force at the beginning of 1940?

 

early war tanks

Easy answer British and French tanks were better armed but were NOT better used- a case of better tactics overcoming better equipment

 

In terms of quantity which side had more tanks?

 

I don't know about quantity of tanks but the Brits lost 1 million tons of equipment at Dunkirk. Leaving about 100 tanks in British army hands.

 

As far as I know the British and French had more tanks than the Germans but the Germans concentrated them into a far more effective offensive force.

Apparantely by May 1940 in the west there were 348 Panzer IIIs ( ausf Es and Fs with a few Gs) and 280 Panzer IVs ( ausf As, Bs, Cs and Ds). There were also around 30 StuG IIIs (ausf A).

I don't know off hand what the other German armoured strength was apart from these main battle tanks.

 

I have to agree with Friend and Lyndon. Brits and French had more tanks but used them wrong way.

 

The French definately had the best tanks.

The French also had the most tanks!

 

On paper it all looked very one sided. The Germans had fewer tanks. None of them were carrying a high velocity better than a 37mm or had armour better than 30mm. British tanks were carrying 40mm guns and the Matilda had armour up to 78mm thick making it impregnable from the front to any German tank. French medium and heavy tanks are carrying 47mm guns and are better armoured than German machines. The only place where German machines have a clear technical advantage is in terms of reliablity and a radio in each machine.

The success they achieved was due to better tactical control and grasp of all-arms tatics. The French and to lesser extent the Britsh were prepared to refight WW1[/i]

 

Germany had around 2600 tanks, which were following models:
400 PZKW 1
-1100 PZKW 2
-350 PZKW 3
-278 PZKW 4
-500 Skoda 38(Czech production).

France had :
-3000 light tanks(D1, Renault 35/40, Hotchkiss35/39, FCM 36)
These light tanks were generally well armoured, had a 37 mm gun, but were quite slow.
- 550 medium tanks D + Somua.Well armoured, fast + good 47mm gun.
- 350 B1 heavy tanks.The only heavy tanks in the world(Exept KV1 perhaps).Only german 88 mm gun could destroy them.

The british had around 350 tanks, cruisers and Mathilda 1+2 Infantry tanks)

Belgian army had some tanks too.

A good site about this battle is : france1940.free.fr

 

Ahhh yes thank you thats what I need.

 

The exact inventory of the German army on 1940-05-01 was as follows:
- 1,077 Pz.Kpfw. I
- 1,092 Pz.Kpfw. II
- 381 Pz.Kpfw. III
- 290 Pz.Kpfw. IV
- 244 Pz.Bef.Wg. (all types)
- 143 Pz.Kpfw. 35(t)
- 238 Pz.Kpfw. 38(t)

Participating in Fall Gelb were
- 554 Pz.Kpfw. I
- 920 Pz.Kpfw. II
- 349 Pz.Kpfw. III
- 280 Pz.Kpfw. IV
- 154 Pz.Bef.Wg. (all types)
- 118 Pz.Kpfw. 35(t)
- 207 Pz.Kpfw. 38(t)

 

Remember

MOST French tanks in WWII had one man turrets. The german Pz.III and IV had three, even the Pz.38(t) had two.

This means one man has to direct his own driver, observe, aquire targets, load and fire the main gun etc. If you add control of other tanks if a commander and you will see he is busy.

Try in a city in the rush hour acting as a passenger, directing the driver what to do (stop, start, speed, direction etc), while counting vehicles comming in the opposite direction by type and colour, all this while reading a map and going on roads you do not know. You will get some idea of the one man turret problems.

David

 

Hey! good point you made there.. Especially the thing you try to managa yourself. Damn sure it'll be tough to complete. Do you really think that would be a thing like a one man turret simulation?

 

The Pz.Kpfw. I only had a one-man turret, though, and the commander in the Pz.Kpfw. II had to act as both commander and gunner, and the loader as both loader and radio operator...

Christian

 

There are no dangerous tanks, there are only dangerous tank commanders. With superior tactics, training, and more actual fighting experience, the Panzers should and did routed the Allies Expedition Forces.

 

I would fight with a poor crew in a Leopard 2 against a veteran crew in a Stuart any day!

Christian

 

As said general Delestraint:
"From our 3000 tanks, we(the french)made thousand groups of three, while out of their 3000 tanks, the germans made three groups of 1000".

Easy to imagine which tactic was superior....

 

Yup, and I would fight with a poor crew in a Tiger I against an expert crew in a T34/85 anyday.

 

Precisely. The Allies had badly neglected the development of armored warfare doctrines in between the two World Wars. The Germans did better, although some of their senior officers were as hidebound as their opponents.