America's friends

Castalot,

Before you think I am anti French, let me tell you that I am not. I am not anti any country really. All I like to do is try to put the record straight and balance up a few things and point out some truths as I see it. I truly cannot go along with any idea that claims Britain and France are the best of friends or alliances when the truth is very different in my view. As for Britain, I am sure we have done some dispicable things in the recent past and deserve as much critisism as anyone. I just think it's unfair for everybody to bash the Americans so much when we should all look at ourselves. We've all got skeletons in the cupboard. No country is immune.

 

Absolutely true.I never said otherwise.
I also never said that France and Britain were the best friends in the world, all I said was that over the last 150 years they fought together in every major war, and that this alliance had an important historic impact.
And I also think it is unfair when the USA are gatting bashed for everything.(I already said that in many topics here).

 

Those 2 almost went to war in 1898 I believe, due to some crises in Latin America.

I'm guessing the the incident at the French port in Oral and the invasion of Madagascar didn't help.

 

Point taken then Castelot. No hard feelings.

Oh and um, congratulations for last night's football win (I say through gritted teeth). A devastating loss for us!! Still, you had most of the Scots on your side hehe!!

 

Yeah - pity they mean the plane!

England & France have 2,000 years of warfare as a history. France are our closest neighbour and most frequent foe. Plus we are culturally very different ('Latin' country vs 'Germanic' country).

Only in the last 100-odd years have we worked together (politically & militarily), and that was only because Germany became a country, and scared the pants off us both. And rightly so - any nation that can fight (essentially) the entire world, and nearly win - twice! - deserves respect.

Examples of us disliking/distrusting each other are rife.
Most Frenchmen still blame England for 'deserting' her in WW2, most Englishmen point out that French troops went on to fight for Germany.
And so on.
Don't forget it was France (dear old de Gaulle) who vetoed Britain's entry to the EU way back when...

(I should point out here that Scotland & France have a long history of friendship - mostly because they were both enemies of England)

Very much a 'love-hate' relationship.

To be fair, most English people have the ability to dislike groups of people (eg: 'I hate the French') but like individuals (eg: 'that Castelot's a really good bloke').

Not the best trait, but better than simply hating people because they are French (or Dutch, or American, or whatever).

America we dislike, well, partly because they have superceeded us.
Modern America is in very many ways the spitting image of Victorian England.

However, we don't admit this!

P.S: 2-1? We were robbed!

 

Yes, it's never easy between neighbours.
But fortunately the times of Jeanne d'Arc and the Black Prince, of Wellington and Napoléon are over.(mostly at least ).

Since then there has been the Entente Cordiale and Rudyard Kipplings "Ode to France".

We were lucky to win yesterday, England would have deserved a draw.(But I don't complain we won 8) )
Still I think we could meet again quite soon, in early July....

 

Nearest ally I think is Portugal, we haven't had a war with them for (I think) 400 to 600 years.

I will try to find out though.

 

The only major power France has never been at war with is I think the US.

 

Well, there was an undeclared naval war bewteen the Frencha nd the U.S. in the early 1800's (1804-5?). Same basic freedom of the seas problems that led to the War of 1812 with the British.

 

I'm late to the party, I couldn't agree more. The U.S. feels a kinship and a profound respect for the Brits, more-so than any other country in the world (even if they do like soccer and outlaw gun ownership). Use a British accent in the U.S. and you have instant credibility.

The U.S. was late to the party in WW I because we truly didn't want to get involved. We were late to WW II because we truly weren't ready. In 1939 our Army totalled 125,000 men and the air force had few modern planes. The navy was somewhat better, but England's problem wasn't naval (except subs) FDR had to drag our Congress kicking and screaming (and I'm not an FDR fan)into even starting to gear up for war. The vote for a draft passed by one vote (in late 1939 I think). Helping with equipment was the best we could do until our rearmament got going.

 

Excuse me? England's problem wasn't naval?! After the BEF was cleared from the continent, in being an island, Britain's problem was purely naval. By the time the US entered the war, Britain was desperately trying to keep its many fronts fighting by long supply lines overseas, while the nation itself was threatened by a tightening net of U-boats. It wasn't fighting major war on land, just a few small scattered armies that relied on supply by sea. Oh, their problems were naval all right.

 

And outside of assisting in anti-submarine warfare (which we were doing on the sly anyways) what would you suggest the U.S. Atlantic Fleet do about it? (Remember, even though the Japanese haven't attacked we still have to keep a substantial force in the Pacific).

 

I wasn't suggesting action from the American side. As far as I know the US forces did as much as they could and were allowed to, for which they deserve praise. I was merely pointing out that Britain's problem really was naval.

 

I guess I was unclear about my point. Yes, definitely England's war was all about naval operations, but considering England's vast navy any American effort in that venue alone would have been relatively minor.

 

Except our vast navy was simultaniously covering the Pacific, the Med, The Atlantic, and a large chunk was simply hanging around waiting for the German fleet to come out & fight.
A few reinforcements may well have helped.
Look how eagerly we took those 50 obsolete destroyers from you in exchange for bases.

I should point out that I too realise

 

Okay, that's a clear point.

Do you happen to know anything about the size and composition of the American Atlantic fleet by the way? I'll split it if the discussion centers on this...

 

The Quasi-War with France ran from 1799-1801. The USN began its winning tradition here.

 

I've heard a nice joke on America's friends:
The CIA published a list of countries who hate the USA. The book is called "The world atlas"
:lol:

 

There are times when I wish isolationism was a viable policy for the USA. Then let's see the world laugh.

 

But you wonldn't see them laugh you would be isolated.