The Battle for Caen.

Three armies fought for this town, for six weeks. It was the nerve centre for the entire German front, in Normandy.
The Allied plan was to tie down as many forces as possible, using Caen as the hinge-pin, to allow the Americans to break out in the south and take the port of Cherbourgh (spelling), an area more suitable for armoured warfare.
The fighting around Caen was bitter, the best of three armies fought in hand-to-hand combat that shocked even the SS units there.
The country side was completely unsuitable for armour because of the centuries of stone walls and bocage that could impede any tank, including the Tiger and Panther. In fact because of this battle the Allies ordered their armoured units to never engage a Tiger tank unless they could send at least three to four tanks aginst it. Wow!

All three armies suffered and committed attrociteis (warcrimes) during this battle. Only the Germans were punished though: remember who wins the war established their form of justice.

 

Strangely enough I have a model of an early Panther ( a D if not mistaken) which is located in th Caen area. So there must have been some german panzer activities... do you happen to know of any?

 

Well yes I do. According to my sources the Germans used the elite divisions of the 12 SS Panzer Division and the 21 Panzer Division.
The I and II Heavy Tank Companies of the 12 SS Panzer fought at Caen in Tigers and Panthers. The remainder of the 12 SS was Panzer IV's all with the long 75mm main gun.

 

ok, so the setting given by Revell is true compared to the actual battle.

 

It may seem so.
From all accounts the set of continuous battles for Caen is when the Waffen SS named the Canadian Army, not just a unit of but the army, as the Allied equivelent, in battle savagery, of the Wafen SS. This is not bashing anyone else it just a parroting of the German soldiers and their officer's accounting of the battles for Caen.

 

Despite the fact that the terrain was wildly unsuitable for tank warfare, Caen was the site for some of the most intesive armoured clashes of the war. For example, during operation Goodwood (18-24 July 1944) the British lost no less than 250 tanks to AT guns and enemy armour in two days.

 

Yup, and if the Germans were able to reestablish their depleted numbers it could have been worse. But the battle for Caen was only to tie down the cream of the enemy forces so the port of Cherbourgh could be quickly taken by the USA army. Hey and it worked too!

 

Not quick enough though. When the port was finally taken on June 27th, it was completely and efficiently destroyed by the Germans, and rendered useless for the Allied war effort...

 

But Roel the Americans tried their best; physically and spiritually. I was always taught, in history class, that Patton won the war. You must be mistaken.

 

Yes, they did try their best, Poodle. And a number of them died doing so. You might want to bear that in mind. No, Patton did not win the war, but it might well have ended earlier in the West had Eisenhower and Bradley listened to him during the Brittany breakout.

Roel, as far as I can recall, Cherbourg was eventually restored to use by the Allies, but only after a truly massive effort. And by then, Antwerp had been captured.

 

1. No really, are you sure? I know I am, of course they bloody well did. Don't lecture me sir, that I can do without.

2. The British and Canadian armies fought 9, I repeat 9 Wafen SS divisions for Caen ( 1 S.S., 2 S.S., 10 S.S., 12 S.S.) and the 21 Panzer Division, and the II S.S. Panzer Corps. (* These are the ones that I know about, I'm sure there are more). As planned by Eisenhower, Bradley and Monty, before the landings, the British and Canadian armies were PLANNED to chew up the cream of the German forces battling for Caen. This allowed the American forces to fight only one German Panzer division in the south. I am sure there were other infantry divisions as well, but opnly one armoured division initially because of the battles for the critical town of Caen.
Now why was this so? Because the ALLIES KNEW VERY WELL the importance of Caen to any successful defence of the Normandy coast.
That is why when the Germans built up forces to counter attack and hope to drive the Canadians and British back into the sea the defensive positioning of the Allied army at Caen were able to defeat the Germans.

As history attends to proofs, not speculation or infurious claims, the operation did work now didn't!

To sum this up what would one think of this plan? I call it an Allied effort to successfully defeat the Nazi war machine on the Western front.
What was the rarely spoken attribute of the Allies being successful? The naval batteries on the battleships, cruisers and monitors jsut off the coast; apparently the Panther tanks, 56 tons, were blown over by the blasts of some near misses.
This last factor was a really kicker to defeat the German S.S. morale.

Caen Anvil of Victory
by: Alexander McKee, Souvenir Press, 1964

As always I try to place my sources for others to read, even if it is just another parroting of that which is in the Library section.

 

21st Panzer division was not an SS formation. The II SS Panzer Corps was simply an army corps that included two SS panzer divisions (9th and 10th SS); hardly a field force in itself, though the divisions were formidable enough.

The Americans in the West faced the excellent Panzer Lehr and 2nd Panzer divisions, as well as the 17th SS PzGr division.

I am not trying to diminish the glory of the Canadian and British forces in Normandy, just trying to bring some balance to your point, because these are the facts.

 

That must have been a nasty one to experence. A battleship shell respects no tank!

 

Roel, I did not list the 21 Panzer Division as an SS Division.

All of the SS Divisions had the Panzier Grenediers. The Panzer Lehr is the same is it not? If it isn't then in this book they were also at the battle for Caen.

If you read my points a little more clearly and objectively you will see that the American breakout was not infantry based but armoured based. The facts, as you like to point out, were based upon the plan that I stated. If you know more about the battle than the author of my sources then hey type it out so I too can learn.

I reiterate my previous statemnet of, 'the plan worked, the cream of the Germany forces in France were chewed up and spit out at Caen and the Americans did their part in swinging around southward to then encircle the remaining German army.

 

Yup, pretty darn scary. There are pictures of German soldiers digging under the knocked out Shermans to find some cover from the blasts and concussion waves.

 

Yes you did. It's in there between the brackets.

All of the SS divisions had two regiments of Pz Grenadiers, but the 17th had three, making it a Pz Gr division instead of a Pz division. Panzer Lehr was moved around the front, but by the time of Cobra they faced the Americans (and got the whole shitload of the opening bombardment).

I didn't deny this. I was just, like I said, bringing some more balance to it, because you were presenting it like there wasn't a unit facing the Americans in the west because everything was around Caen. This is not entirely so, and I tried to make that clear. Please do not be offended if I try to keep the facts clear.

 

Actually Monty won the war. If he were alive, he'd still be telling anyone who would listen........ .

 

Right that's it stop Brit bashing.......



Only joking..... LOL

 

No Roel I did not, the 21 Panzer is listed as just that, there is a comma between the two. If it was an SS division it would have been listed like the rest, such for example '21 S.S. Armoured Division'.

Actualy if you read my statement you will see that I said that the plan worked because the American army faced only one German armoured division. That is what I wrote and that is what I meant to write, if people are offended by the facts that's their problem, not mine.

 

You wrote:

From this I conclude that among the '9 Waffen SS divisions' were 1st, 2nd, 10th, 12th SS and the 21st Panzer, because they are all between the brackets that follow the '9 divisions' statement. This seems to me like a logical assumption. But if you didn't mean it that way and meant to say that the Brits and Canadians at Caen faced 1st, 2nd, 9th, 10th, 12th SS Pz divisions and 116th and 21st Panzer divisions, then I will agree with you because that is entirely so.

However, the Americans in the west faced two Panzer divisions and one SS Panzer Grenadier division, not just one Pz division. Still the plan worked, infinite glory to those who performed it.