Welcome to the WWII Forums! Log in or Sign up to interact with the community.

Greatest Military Theorist

Discussion in 'Non-World War 2 History' started by Roel, Nov 20, 2004.

  1. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Which person do you think was greatest at formulating his thoughts on warfare? It can be any person who has ever written or expressed himself about this field of expertise, from field generals to great kings to scientists and opportunists.
     
  2. canambridge

    canambridge Member

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2004
    Messages:
    1,649
    Likes Received:
    7
    via TanksinWW2
    Roel,

    How about proposing a few candidates. Julius Ceasar, Clauswitz, Moltke, Liddel Hart, your favorite Chinese for examples.

    Myself, I like Chinese simplicity and openess to interpretation.
     
  3. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Well, there we go.

    Napoleon, Machiavelli, Sun Tzu, Wu Chi, Fuller, Guderian...

    I agree with you, canambridge. It speaks for them that their work is still considered valuable over two milleniae after the works were written.
     
  4. Greg Pitts

    Greg Pitts New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2004
    Messages:
    542
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    DFW Texas
    via TanksinWW2
    The best documented: Napoleon.

    The absolute best never wrote them down.

    :smok:
     
  5. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,974
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Napoleon is interesting.
    He took advantage of the new technology that France introduced (lighter gun carriges, better artillery), he developed a new set of tactics that ran rings around the tactical orthadoxy then in place.
    Then he made several very bad promotions, and completely failed to chage his tactics when some bright spark worked out how to counter them.
    It is all very well devising a wonderful new technique to best an old technique, but if you are not flexible enough to adapt it to the evolution of the enemy's tactics, you are not, IMHO, the best military theorist.
     
  6. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Which is why, in my opinion, the greatest are those who discuss the laws of warfare that always apply instead of those creating a very time-bound tactic to gain an empire.
     
  7. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High Point, North Carolina, USA
    via TanksinWW2
    My vote goes to William Tecumseh Sherman, who summed up war in one short but eloquent sentence: "War is Hell."
     
  8. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Hm. That will get your war won... :-?

    It seems that Napoleon made a few staggering blunders in his day, too. In a recently published book on his Russia campaign, a historian wonders why the heck Napoleon moved on Moscow in 1812 - the czar resided in St.Petersburg! :-?
     
  9. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High Point, North Carolina, USA
    via TanksinWW2
    Maybe the economy fare to Moscow was lower than the one to St. Petersburg? ;)
     
  10. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Imagine the face of the airport employee being asked for 610,000 tickets to Moscow. ;)
     
  11. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The eldest daugther of Church
    via TanksinWW2
    Napoleon wasn't after the czar, but after the russian army.
    When he invaded Russia, he hoped the russians would accept battle quickly, so he could destroy their army during the first days of the war and then impose peace.
    But the russians just retreated deeper and deeper into their country.

    When he noticed that, Napoleon looked for the best way to impose a battle on the russians. He tought that could best be achieved by maching on the economical, historical and geographical center of Russia: Moscow.
     
  12. Gatsby phpbb3

    Gatsby phpbb3 New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2004
    Messages:
    217
    Likes Received:
    0
    via TanksinWW2
    I always thought St. Petersburg was the more important city. After all, it was Russia's primary link to the outside world.
     
  13. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The eldest daugther of Church
    via TanksinWW2
    Moscow is more important.

    Historical: It had been the capital of Russia for centuries, modern Russia developped out of it.
    St Petersburg was an artificial czar residence town, but in the eyes of the simple people, Moscow was always the real capital.

    Geographical: Moscow lies in the centre of european Russia, all important roads towards east and south, north and west pass trough Moscow.
     
  14. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Well, I think that to go chase an enemy army into their own ground, in a country so vast that travelling through it will take years with any army, is a pretty capital strategical blunder. At least with the Tsar you know where he is. His army, once in Russia itself, will never fight on your terms!
     
  15. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,974
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    If you do go invade a foriegn country, the best way to conquer it / defeat their army is to engage it asap, and on your terms. The best way to achieve this is to threaten something important, like Moscow.

    This tactic has worked suprisingly well in the past.
    William the Bastard of Normandy managed to make Harold II of England fight a major engagement before he was ready by the simple tactic of ravaging Harold's lands. Harold had everything to gain by waiting a week before fighting William, but was forced into battle on pain of losing his 'right' to be a lord in the eyes of his peasants.
     
  16. Castelot

    Castelot New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2003
    Messages:
    1,413
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The eldest daugther of Church
    via TanksinWW2
    And Napoleons tactic wasn't that wrong.
    Indeed, the russians did everything to avoid Moscow to be captured.
    There was no russian plan to withdraw and attract the french deeper and deeper into the couintry.
    More than once the czar ordered his generals to engage battle and stop Napoleons advance.
    But his generals didn't have the nerve to do so.So unconciously they did the right thing:avoid battle.
    In late august, the czar, unhappy with his commanders gave command of the army to general Koutouzov, which he believed would fight.
    When Napoleon heard of this he was satisfied and said:"Thank God, finally we'll have a battle."
    But in the following battle of Borodino,at the gates of Moscow, Napoléon, altough he defeated the russians, didn't achieve to completely destroy their army.
     
  17. corpcasselbury

    corpcasselbury New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2003
    Messages:
    4,356
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    High Point, North Carolina, USA
    via TanksinWW2
    This was also why Hitler should have made the city his primary objective in 1941. His failure to do so (or set any objective, for that matter) doomed Operation Barbarossa's chances of ultimate success.
     
  18. Roel

    Roel New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2003
    Messages:
    12,678
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Netherlands
    via TanksinWW2
    Yeah, but then, no one ever nominated Hitler for this topic... ;)
     
  19. Ricky

    Ricky Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    Messages:
    11,974
    Likes Received:
    105
    Location:
    Luton, UK
    via TanksinWW2
    Well, political opportunism is a useful game to play in war.
    As is (sometimes) the bold movement in a conflict full of ditherers.

    However, I do not think a military genius as flawed as Herr Hitler will ever get a serious nomination as an all-time great! ;)
     

Share This Page