Sturmtiger

do you think that the sturmtiger would have changed the course of the war if the war went on for another year??

 

No, nothing would or could have changed the course of the war at that point. If the Germans could have held on longer the US would be in a position to start making parts of the Reich glow in the dark by late 1945.

The same applies to any one of the German miracle weapons that occasionally are touted as "missed opportunity war-winners". After the failure of Barbarossa and the US entry into the war, Germany's fate was more or less sealed, only massive, massive incompetence on the part of the Allies would have changed that.

If the Miracle weapon is deployed against the Western Allies, it might hold them up long enough that the Iron Curtain ends up a few miles further West, if deployed against the Soviets it might hold them up enough that their troops end the war a few miles further East, but then the post-war borders and areas of control had been agreed at Yalta anyway so the Western Allies would just pull out of agreed Soviet territory once Germany surrendered.

This applies pretty much whatever weapon or machine you wish to consider, Me262, Maus, E-100, it doesn't matter, nothing was likely to cause the Allies enough damage to reverse Germany's eventual defeat.

 

actually my grandpa has a book made in 1946 just after the war and there was a underground factory making jet planes and most of them were already done .it was just taken over before they could get them out of the factory .

 

Yep I heard that one too, I'm pretty sure they would be the He162 Volksjager. (About 1,000 airframes in various stages of completion)

This aircraft was plagued with problems, not only did it have structural issues (The test pilot was killed when the wings fell off the prototype on its maiden flight), and a pretty light armament of 2x20mm cannon, but in practical terms Germany was not actually short of aircraft by the point it would have entered service Germany had a chronic shortage of both fuel and pilots skilled enough to fly them.

The solution with the Volksjager was to take teenage boys from Hitler Youth Glider schools and place them in these fighters, no-one seemed to have considered how an boy who had only previously glided at 10-20mph was suppose to fly through a US bomber formation at closing speeds of 700mph+, fly well enough to actually hit a bomber and down it with his meagre armament (By comparison the Me262 had 4x30mm cannon), then evade the escort fighters and come home, all in a fighter that as previously indicated had structural problems.

This is without even considering what they're going to take off with considering there's no Avgas for them...

Yeah, a real potential war-winner there, if they'd got them in service it'd be a positive boost for the allies, they'd be wasting valuable fuel that the Me262 and Ar234 squadrons badly needed!

 

but the sturmtiger would have been a destructive weapon if the the war went on .its assult motar could take out any building and any tank

 

Yes? And?

I'm no expert on weapons, but I'm assuming the Sturmtiger's mortar was pretty short ranged, in which case it would be vulnerable to Allied and Soviet tanks at range.

Even if I'm wrong, let's go through the problems with it...

Fuel: Germany had a critical shortage of fuel, so unless you're proposing a massively different Alternative history, the Sturmtigers are going nowhere fast.

Numbers: Germany was never going to be able to outproduce the combined industrial might of the US and the Soviet Union, so even if they reach the front line these tanks are always going to be hideously outnumbered. They're not invulnerable, so sooner or later a T-34/IS-2/Sherman is going to get a flank shot and kill it, or it'll come up against some Fireflies, 122mm armed Russian Tanks, 90mm equipped US tanks/tank destroyers and it'll take a fatal hit. So it's mortar could take out any Allied tank (And I'm taking your word for that), so what? The German 88mm gun could too, so it's no better off than standard Tigers and Panthers were, if anything it's worse off because it'll be out ranged by almost everything!

Allied Air Superiority: Inhibits the movement of supplies, no fuel, no ammunition, no food, no spares and you're Sturmtiger is just a well protected shelter.

Sorry, I just really cannot see the Sturmtiger being able to tip any realistic kind of Alternative History in favour of the Germans.

 

but the war was lost.

For each sturmtiger germany could build it would be facing 12 Sherman/cromwells and 24 T-34's.

They had no gas for them either. Big tanks go nowhere without fuel.

Theres a thread on this somewhere. The second Germany failed to crush Russia and the US entered the war Germany was never ever ever going to win regardless of how big it's tanks got and how wonderful it's jet planes were.

FNG

 

actually the sturmtiger could only be destroyed by its crew if run our of gas or by air coer or artillery no tank could destroy it o and it had very good range

 

I ment to say out of gas

 

Hi Sherman, might I make a friendly suggestion here that you do a bit more research into the specs of the Sturmtiger and the allied tanks it would have been facing. As has already been stated by Simonr1978, there were several typed of very common Allied and Russian tanks and tank destroyers that could take out a Sturm Tiger at range, and as was also stated by Simonr1978, the Allies and Russians had thousands of such vehicles. The Sturmtiger did not have impenetrable armour, it was basically a modofied Tiger I, and these could be taken out by the tanks already mentioned by Simonr1978.
I know the Sturmtiger was a big tank with thick armour and with a very big mortar that could cause huge explosions, and from this point of view it seems very impressive, but in the real world, there would have been too few of them to make any difference to Germany's situation, and in a pure tank battle, they would be virtually useless, since the reloading time for the rocket mortar and the aim would mean that they would have a rate of fire and near misses that would see them getting off only one or two shots each before they get knocked out by the numerically superiour Allied and Russian tanks.

 

Also at anything other than very close range the arched trajectory and relatively low velocity of the Mortar Rockets as compared to the flat trajectory and high velocity of anti-tank shells would mean that against a moving target at range the Sturmtiger's crew are going to have to fire at where they think the target is going to be when the shell lands, complicating the gunnery further and a maximum capacity of 14 rounds means that they'll not have much ammunition spare for misses and ranging shots.

 

look I read the reports of the of americans saying that they couldnt get a shell through it and had to call the artillery .I read that none we destroyed by tanks but they were destroyed by their crews or by artillery

 

go to www.actungpanzer.com and read about the sturmtiger and the reports from tanks crews

 

www.actungpanzer.com/sttig.htm

 

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/sttig.htm this is the real one

 

and in one case it says that a one round from a sturmtiger took out 3 american tanks

 

you need to look at the tank more carefully look how the armor is slopped on all sides and look at the thinkness .That would pratically make it un stop able unless you hit it with artillery

 

fantasy

sherman- you clearly have your fantasy on this subject and will resist anything that conflicts with it. OK your baby was a big mean mother that made big loud bangs and was tough as nails to kill. so what- it was outnumbered by a huge margin and only carried a few rounds of ammo. when you are in a target rich place you better have more ammo than targets or you're in deep trouble. the beast was never meant to fight tanks in the first place and at close range was almost helpless unless the tank was right in front of it. you keep pointing out than a lot of them were scuttled by thier crews, why do you think that happened? most likely they were out of ammo, broke down [after all they were built on a less that relaible tank to began with and then it was overloaded], stuck, or in a location where retreat was not possible. i suspect you think big guns and heavy armor always make the best tank and since the maus never got started you settled for this one as the next best.
don't feel too bad- we all start out with ideas that are wrong but as we learn we change and discover until we realize how much we didn't know. this forum is full of people that know quite a lot and are not shy about sharing. glad to have you aboard.

 

Can I suggest you actually read the article?

Weaknesses of the design, from the web page you've quoted:

"the Sturmtiger had to move after each shot because its position was revealed to the enemy."

Hardly ideal...

"it could carry only 14 rocket projectiles inside the superstructure. Twelve projectiles were stored in two stowage racks, one more in the launcher and another on the load-ing tray. Most vehicles carried only 13 rounds"

Low ammuntion storage, would require frequent resupply leaving units extremely vulnerable to attacks on their supply lines, especially as it only had a 74 mile range as well, so would require very frequent refueling.

"were slow and mechanically unreliable"

So, even if you get ammunition and fuel there's still a good chance youre tanks will break down anyway, or that the enemy will just outflank your positions and bypass you...

"In January 1945, a single round from a PzStuMrKp 1001 Sturmtiger reportedly destroyed three American M-4 Sherman tanks located in a targeted village."

Keyword here, "Reportedly", the site offers no further elaboration or corresponding evidence, or explains what the tanks were doing at the time. Secondly it was the village that was targetted, not the Shermans, it doesn't actually indicate that the Sturmtiger was capable of hitting a moving enemy tank with any kind of reliablity. I would read this as a fluke lucky hit, not indicative of Sturmtigers as a whole being able to blow away whole Platoons with a single shot.

"Their heavy armor protection forced the enemy to destroy them with heavy artillery bombardment or air attack"

Doesn't say what they were up against, there were only a small number so it's possible that artillery or air attack was simply the quickest way to destroy them rather than the only. The US 90mm, Soviet 122mm and British 17lber were all more than capable of defeating the armour on regular Tigers, the Sturmtiger's armour was thicker on the superstructure and had a greater slope on the hull, but personally I doubt it would be enough to make the difference between the likes of the 17lber which I understand penetrated the Tiger I's armour with ease. Does anyone have penetration figures for the Allied and Soviet guns?

Penetration of Armor Plate at 30 degrees from Vertical.
Ammunition: 100m 500m 1000m 1500m 2000m
Panzergranate 39 120mm 110mm 100mm 91mm 84mm
Panzergranate 40 171mm 156mm 138mm 123mm 110mm

Figures for the 88mm KwK36 from the same website, as I understand it the US 90mm was roughly comparable to the 88mm and the 17lber superior, so based on these figures as an example the Sturmtiger at the very least would be vulnerable to a Flank shot or a close range frontal shot on the hull.

Remember that it would always be badly outnumbered on both the Western Allies and Soviets could afford to lose tanks getting into position for a flank shot, whilst the Sturmtiger woudl find it difficult to say the least to hit a moving target.

Having said all that, let me turn the question on its head slightly. Why are you so sure the Sturmtiger could have reversed Germany's defeat?[/i]

 

I just like the look of it and I know quite a bit about it .