Turret modifications

I have noticed that tanks of certain armies (notably the Israelis, I think) have suspended short lengths of chain from the rear bottom edge of their turrets. Does anyone know why ?
Malladyne.

 

It could be a "field-mod" anti-RPG measure. Low cost, low weight and may set off HEAT warheads before actually reaching the physical turret armour.

 

Oli has it - it is simply to protect the vulnerable turret ring (where the turret joins the hull) from RPG or similar AT rocket/missile attack.

 

Tank mods.

Like you guys, I too had wondered if these chains are anti rocket devices in the same way as spaced armour is, but they are only little bits of skinny chain about six inches long, so I don't think that they would have any effect whatsoever on stopping rockets,which would either go in between 'em or just blow 'em out of the way.
Cheers,
Malladyne.p.s. I have been asked to change my name from Marlin because it is too similar to Merlin. I haven't yet found out how to do this.
Do you guys have any ideas as to how it is done ?

 

Ask the Admin, I'm sure they can fix this for you!

 

The chains are wieghted so they are quite heavy.



Also they are not suppsed to stop the round but activate the heat charge early or deflect and disrupt solid rounds which would greater reduce there penetrating ability on inpact.

I am sure they must do something and have been tested otherwise why would so many people do it

FNG[/img]

 

Turret chains

Wow ! Great photograph, which clearly establishes that the chains are thicker, heavier and wieghted, whereas the ones I have previously wouldn't have flushed a loo without snapping off.
It does seem that the preponderance of opinion favours their being used as some sort of a deflector, but they certainly wouldn't offer any protection against A.P. or squash head rounds. I know this since I have seen the effect of 90 mm and 120 mm rounds of this nature when used against armour on the firing ranges in Canada, Germany and the UK.
They have a very high penetration rate even against sloped, homogeneous armours, let alone dangly bits of chain. I have also seen MILAN and other missiles fired at armour and I am not at all convinced that the chains would have any effect there either. Maybe they will do something against RPG's, but even then am not sure. Your contributions are much appreciated !
Malladyne.

 

They are mostly used by Israeli forces, whose biggest (well, most common) threat is the RPG-7. The chains are there to hopefully be hit by the warhead before it hits the turret ring, but not be a big, immovable weight on the back of the turret that could get caught on stuff and tear off (like the solid German armoured skirts in WW2).

(as far as I know! )

 

Turret chains

Well, I guess that these chains may possibly deflect a RPG, after all, the rocket power of a RPG is completely exhuasted even before it exits the rocket tube, so I guess that it may lack punch; especially since it is not velocity but the shaped charge effect of the head that does the damage.

On a completely different subject. Given that the British "Conqueror" super very tank saw service in Egypt during the Canal campaign, can anyone direct me to any material on this ?
Malladyne

 

Re: Turret chains

It is less about deflection than detonating the warhead before it hits the actual tank.

News to me! I thought that it never saw combat use.
Although my ignorance is large...

It was introduced in 1955 so it is chronologically possible, but being as the Suez Crisis was an attempt to sieze the canal zone as quickly as possible surely the slow-moving Conqueror would be a waste of time compared to the Centurion?

 

If you ever read anything about the merkava they are specificially designed for heavy urban use, hence the infantry support, gun ports and high quality numerous observation ports. An armoured skirt would be a nightmare.

Also would those chains be enougth to disrupt the spin and direction of a solid round which would start it to tumble and reduce it's effectivness?

FNG

 

Marlin wrote:

Well, not exactly. An RPG-7 has a two stage rocket, the second ignites about 10 meters or so after it leaves the tube. As to it's punch, it can be considerable when striking thin skinned vehicles (and personnel) even if it's warhead doesn't detonate. One of the Rangers killed in Somalia took an RPG through the torso after it passed through the truck door, it didn't detonate but it remained in his torso with the detonator of the warhead just beneath the skin on the opposite side. The Ranger was still alive when he was brought in and the RPG was disarmed from behind sandbags but unfortunately (and not surprisingly) he died not long after

As Ricky pointed out, more likely the theory is that one can prematurely detonate the warhead.

 

"Conqueror" and RPG's

I am pretty sure that "Conqueror's" were sent to Egypt for the Canal campaign, since I recall this being mentioned on the sign in front of Duxford's "Conqueror". Of course, this doesn't actually mean that they saw action.

The evidence re chains being used to prematurely ignite RPG's is becoming ever more believable, although I am not yet entirely convinced.
I cannot see them as having any posible counter effect on a very high velocity AP round, though.
Cheers,
Malladyne.

 

Possibly not so much deflect as detonate RPG rounds. AFAIK the RPG and similar have a piezo-electric contact fuse. If the warhead goes off early then the penetration will be vastly reduced since penetration is a fixed distance from the base of the warhead. eg if the penetration is 440 mm and the warhead goes off 400 mm from the armour then the pen is only 40 mm (and that would be a cone-shaped hole 40 mm deep.

 

Re: "Conqueror" and RPG's

Ah, that would make sense. I may have to return to Duxford soon to check the sign...

 

Been giving this a bit more thought: if APFSDS rounds hit the chains they would (may) get some deflection since the chain will move, taking the APFSDS off-line (I've seen video of a 50 cal round being yawed from hitting a 1/4 inch thick twig). Any yaw at all on APFSDS would have an adverse effect on penetration since hitting non-square-on would probably cause buckling of the round....
Just a thought :lol:

 

Thats what I was thinking. These rounds are designed to fly strieght and true so any sought of devation could reduce their effectiveness

FNG

 

Good theory and if the obstacle is struck a considerable distance from the target what you describe can happen however in this case the distance from the obstacle to the armor plate is not great enough IMO to materally change the angle of impact.
Unless you encounter another MBT the most likely weapon fired at you will be a HEAT round though so it is worth the effort even if only effective versus shaped charge weapons.

 

Turret chains

Ain't it nice ! I submitted a dumbass question about turret mounted chains and it seems to have generated a lot of worthy, interesting and technical replies. Man, I'd like to have seen the footage of that .50 cal round being deflected by a twig !
Malladyne

 

It's a "bootleg" copy a friend did for me a few years back of a US video called, IIRC, "Weapons Effects" for the home shooting market. Basically the guy runs through .22 tp .50 pistol, shotgun and rifle versus car doors, engine blocks and plastic containers full of water and debunks (in living colour) a lot of Hollywood myths.
If I ever get the facility I'll copy it (honestly officer, I didn't say that :lol: ) and let you have it.
Grieg wrote

ahh, but is it? Bear in mind that the centre of gravity of the APFSDS round would be somewhere around halfway down its length, and any yaw induced may not have time to be corrected by the fins, due to the short distance. So the projectile would carry on with the tip hitting at an angle but the direction of motion still in a straight line. Although I do agree that the chains are most likely anti-RPG measures.