German ingenuity, apparently.

Alright, so I’m in an offline debate with a guy I know about the quality of German tanks vs. British tanks. Of course, I’m arguing for Britain, he's for Germany.

At one point in the debate, he comes up with three particular gems which I have never, ever heard of and can't find anything on in my books or the inter-web. So, as my #1 source of information, I’m going to rely on you guys to either confirm or bust these three statements.

Statement #1:

Statement #2:

Statement #3, and my favorite:

 

That statement alone tells you this guy is living in fantasyland.

 

split barrel???

As an ex.RAC Gunfitter this a new one on me, nearly as good as Chieftains in Vietnam, I bet they had some fun making the rifling match up! Do you reckon they cut a piece out either side or sawed a bigger piece out and bent the remainder round!

 

I live in almost the same fantasyland your friend does. Ie. Germany wins everyone else lose!

 

The German Pzgr.Patr.39 ammunition was in fact APCBC-HE. The explosive charge was placed in the rear of the granade, as illustrated below (dark grey = explosive charge, meium grey = fuse, light grey = solid steel). If it would have worked as your friend suggests, the explosive charge would either disintegrate upon impact or the explosive effect would be directed rearwards. The explosive charge inside the Pzgr.Patr.39 was relatively small (for the 8,8 cm Pzgr.Patr.39 it was 64 g., compared to the gunpowder charge of 2,920 g., the grenade weighing 10.2 kg. - that's quite a significant mass-to-energy displacement, especially since the explosive energi would be directed backwards through void in the rear rather than forward).


Also tell your friend, that the 1939-04-25 manual for 3,7 cm Kw. K. ammunition only shows APCBC-HE ammunition, and no APCR (which was referred to as Pzgr.Patr.40, by the way) ammunition.

 

i never heard that , that guy must be high or drunk!!!1

 

While I cannot add any real technical data to the discussion:

Surely a 'split in half & welded together' gun barrel would never withstand the strains & stresses of repeated firings? Plus, how would they make sure that the weld seam in the inside was perfectly flush with the inside of the barrel (including the rifling grooves)?
This is just nonsensical.

Even if it were possible, would a front-line maintenance unit be capable of this?

And ask him to take a look at a picture of a Tiger I gun and a Panther gun, and play 'spot the difference'. :roll:

 

With absolutley zero effect even if true. A rocket (effectively) - propelled round with the motor going off on contact with the armour would take time to build up its acceleration/ velocity to beyond that of the ordinary impact velocity. By which time it would have either bounced or penetrated anyway.

 

Re: statement #1, I think he's exaggeratingand twisting the oft-stated fact that Tungsten supplies were low in late-war Germany. Instead of assuming that therefore the new APCR rounds, while more powerful than the old APCBC rounds, would be scarce, he goes on to conclude that APCR must have been the standard before Tungsten became scarce (when were the first APCR rounds issued, anyway?) and that APCBC was in fact the new development. Founded on loose sand if you ask me.

Re: statement #2, I don't know exactly how APCBC works (could some enlighten me please?) but I do know that German APCBC round penetration was significantly lower than their own APCR rounds.

Re: statement #3, BOLLOCKS.
This operation is way too complicated for a field repair team to carry out, as Merlin notes from his own personal experience. Moreover, there simply weren't enough Tiger IE's around, let alone knocked out but still available to German field repair crews, to reequip even a fifth of all Panthers ever built. And finally, if they were equipped with a 75mm on paper, they would constantly be recieving 75mm ammunition, rendering their supposed 88mm guns useless.

 

APCBC works pretty much like any other AP/HE shell, but it has a cap of softer metal to assist with initial penetration against face hardened armor. American ammunition had too soft of a cap, and caused extensive failures when trying to penetrate Panther or Tiger glacis plates.

 

That's APC, APCBC also has a cap to improve aerodynamics.

 

Thanks for the clarification.