[Split from 'Best Nghtfighter'] Such incidents were, sadly, commonplace during WW2. I know of an American C-54 cargo plane that was shot down by RAF fighters in 1943, IIRC. The USAAF was so concerned about the problem that they commissioned a training film about it, starring Ronald Reagan as an American fighter pilot who returns to base jubilant over a kill, only to learn that it was one of ours during his debriefing.
Blue on blues You are so right ! Time and time again during the War both aircraft and crew were lost when attacks were wrongly made. Even the RAF started off WW2 badly with what I believe was called "The Battle of Barking Creek. In this action either some Hurricanes attacked some Spitfires or it was the t'other way around. Fatalities ensued, I am afraid. Also, Typhoon losses were often attributed to other Allied pilots mistaking them for FW 190's. Marlin
Re: Blue on blues wasn't that the one where a flight of Blenhiems was mistaken for a German raid by the radar guys, who sent fighters to intercept, then sent more fighters to intercept them? Or am I getting confused? While this is true (and Typhoons had black & white striped wings long before D-Day to mark them out as Allied), I wonder why? How can you confuse a Typhoon & a Focke-Wulf Fw 190?
Blue on blue I dunno ? Was the Battle of Barking Creek about a flight of Blenheims ? I couldn't even say as to why Typhoons were often mistaken for -190's, other than the chin rad of the former made it look like the radial of the latter. The point I am making is that Blue on Blue incidents are horribly commonplace and that it is all too easy for mistakes to be made. Going on from the above point, I believe that P-38 Lightnings were the only Allied aircraft allowed to be flown above the invasion beaches on D-day and this was because it was hoped that its disticntive twin boom shape could not be mistaken with any other aircraft. Also, why were most if not all P-47's given white bands around the wings and tailplane ? ( I am not talking about invasion stripes, but just single white bands ) As I understand it, it was to prevent them from being mistaken for an enemy aircraft and if any can mistake a 7 ton Jug for any enemy aircraft, then anything is possible ! Marlin
There was definitely a blue-on-blue with Hurricanes and Spitfires over the Channel early in the Battle of Britain, with a some aircraft shot down before it was clarified, I'll see if I can dig out the information from my books. Ju88s and Blenheims were apparently quite frequently mistaken for one-another, including a reverse of the typical blue-on-blue where a couple of Ju88s approached an RAF station at low speed and with their gear down, then at the last moment brought their gear up, their bomb-bay doors open and attacked the station. Another one I can recall although it maybe a bit of an urban myth is that supposedly P-51s had a bit of a rough time in the early stages of their introduction as P-47 pilots would see an inline engine and squarish wing-tips and automatically attack the Bf109s... Not too sure about the P-38 story, I'll seek clarification elsewhere for that one. The thing is with aircraft recognition it's not so much about how obviously a P-47 is not an Fw190 when we see it in perfect colourful clarity in a book under the heading "P-47 Thunderbolt", it's whether the same plane is as obvious 600 yards away at 20,000ft with the sun in your eyes and hazy cloud when you're expecting to see Fw190s. Considering the circumstances I'm surprised their weren't a hell of a lot more blue-on-blues. Oh, and just for the record and just to make it clear that I am not singling out the USAAF, you could obviously substitute any vaguely similar aircraft into that description above, Hurricane and Bf109, Ju88 and Blenheim, etc.
There are plenty of hairy stories from the BoB of Hurricane / Bf109 mixups - including a few where a Hurri joined a Bf109 formmation by mistake.
Some Bf 109s were shot down by Defiants, cos they thought that they´re going to attack a Hurricane. Regards, Che.
I have heard that this is a bit of a myth, but with a grain of truth. It wasn't particularly that the Bf109s thought they were attacking Hurricanes, just that they spotted some single engined enemy fighters so executed what would normally be a perfect attack. High and from the rear, and unfortunately straight into the Defiant's guns.
@Ricky, yes the AA-Batterys confounded the contours of the Typhoon and Fw 190, cos they look quite similar if you´re looking from below. SRY, for runinig this page, however it´s necessary I´m gonna delete the pic, it´s just because I did not found another one, which shows the Typhoon from below. Regards, Che.
But from below they look as different (if not more so) than any other 2 single-engine fighters of the period (Spitfire & P-47 excepted). Heck, they even have differently shaped wingtips, and the Tiffie has those great protruding gun barrels. I can understand that if you are making a hurried decision - ours or theirs - you can make mistakes. But why are these 2 singled out as especially confusing? They really don't seem to be.
Blue on blue Great air to air shot of a Tiffie. I've never seen that one before. Was there a second pic of a Jug ? If so it didn't reproduce on my PC. As I have said before, Blue on Blues were frightengly common in WW2 and in all wars, of course- I only referred to the need for aircraft to have distinguishing marks ( as well as national insignia) in order to help prevent this. I am pretty sure that the examples of aircraft quoted as being most susceptible to attacks of this kind are correct and cannot, I am afraid, find the time to refer to my library to confirm it. Sixty years later, it hardly seems to matter anyway. Marlin
Re: Blue on blue Oh yes, P-47s, P-51s and Typhoons all recieved distinctive markings to highlight their status as 'friend'. I just always wondered why with the Typhoon it is always stated that it was confused with the Fw-190, when they seem to be as different and as similar as pretty much any two other opposing planes.
Typhoon for -190 I seem to recall that the appearance of the -190 engendered a bit of a panic response in Allied aircrew, since it outclassed whatever aircraft they were flying at the time. This may have impacted upon Typhoons which, although not markedly similar to a -190, may then have been treated with a shoot first and ask questions afterwards outlook ? Marlin
Possibly... but wasn't the Typhoon introduced after upgraded Spitfire marks had largely countered the 190-panic?
Tiffie v -190 Even as I typed my last reply, the seeds of doubt on this point were sewing themselves in my mind. Marlin
I'm sure I've posted this one before, but since we're on the subject: I used to work with a guy who was an ex-Bofors gunner. So I got into the habit of showing my airshow photos. Typical (true) conversation follows: Spitfire - no Ted that's a Hurricane Spitfire - No Ted that's a P-51 Spitfire - no Ted that's a Lancaster Honest, that's was his level of "expertise". So I asked how he'd managed in the war, "Oh that's easy, we had a guy attached to the gun crew from the Observer Corps". ANd then, just as I breathe a sigh of relief, "but we always ignored him, if it was in range we shot at it" He also added that in four years his gun never hit anything. Edit: Oh yeah, this coming from a guy was rated 23rd in the country at aircraft recognition, got 100% in his first test in the ATC at ROC level, and a couple of years later arrived at an airshow only to scream "MRCA - we're too late, it's landed!!!" (first public MRCA display you see), only to realise half a minute later that it was a Jaguar
He, he, he. :lol: Pilots are just the same. A friend was making a model of MiG-21 for one former MiG driver (his plane). Interview about details was something on this lines :lol: : Q: Which type of MiG did you flew? A: 21 Q: I know that! I mean which subversion? A: L- something (internal Yugoslav marking for MiG-21) Q (gives up): What colour it was? A: Light Q: Silver or gray? A: I realy have no idea. Result: He finished MiG-21PFM according to instructions of the pilot with markings for BIS version and in wrong colours. Needles to say that his model was promptly reviewed by us fellow modelers and all mistakes were pointed to him. For next plane he was doing for some other former MiG driver (who was enchanted by the first model) his reaction was: Just give me the registartion number (painted on the nose and tail). I'll look for details myself.
