i think that the soviets really did not care how many men and equipment were lost in a battle. they just cared if the unit was fit for the next battle
Their medical units went to areas with the most casulaties instead of biggest casulaties going to medical units. Thats about all I know. Well, when you have a huge army meant for massive attack you dont mind taking as many casulaties as say the americans, who are many a time casulaty conscious.
Correction, they only seemed to care if the objective was taken. How many units were obliterated in the process was largely irrelevant. This is more or less the standard Asian-collectivist mindset in which the individual is in every sense subordinated to the goals and actions of the collective. Dying for the country, state or whatever is considered a great glory, dying for your own beliefs is swiftly forgotten. It is not surprising, considering this cultural background, that Communism took root in Russia and China rather than in Europe.
I do have to object on this one. Italy and France had extremly strong communist parties. Also eastern block was not all just soviet occupational zone. Soviet casulties depended hevily on commanders of the armies. Basicly their tactical doctrine was very inflexible. Basicly if objectives were not met army commander was in deep shit (lined agaist a wall or something to that effect). Some commanders were more concerned by their troops (Katukov, Rokosovski, even Koniev later on...) some not (Zhukov, Mareckov, Mehlis...). Never heard of Hurtingen forrest, Kokoda road....?
Im thinking more along the lines of post ww2, especially post vietnam. But compared to the soviets, the americans werent willing to take the same casualty risks.
I would have to agree with you 3,000 dead in 3 1/2 years is the worst loss of life ever *sarcastic* now every life is worth it.. Did the Russian units have as good of medical units as the Americans or British?
Soviet medical units were a bit more primitive becouse of lack of equipment and medicine. One also has to take into the account that Soviet armed forces were much bugger than british and american combined and that trrain conditions where they oprated was significantly different. Frontline medics were first class as were the doctors. CPR was basicly developed by Soviets during ww2. Also in the west recently understood mechanisms use of low temperatures regarding battlefield medicine (improving survival rate of wounded/injured by cooling their bodies) were pioneered by Soviets during that time. Their transport capabilities of the wounded were in shambolic state during retreat phase of the war but in 1942 conditions stabilised and they were capable even to medevac wounded partisans from behind german lines. From what i read from some memoars the biggest complaint was about hospitals after they were evacuated far behind the lines, as food shortages for civilians were normal and food rations were not as good as on the frontline which slowed recovery process.
. Tiso said "use of low temperatures regarding battlefield medicine (improving survival rate of wounded/injured by cooling their bodies) were pioneered by Soviets during that time." Yeeh , I can see that one , discovered experimentaly , treating a pile of wounded left out in the snow ! Medical services were considered an adjunct to the business of killing germans , patients had low priority for transport or even food doctors and nurses were above all soviet soldiers who treated the wounded , they were expected to take a gun and fight if so required , some commanders showed more care , but as tiso said , designated objectives had to be mets at all hazars. the theory being that on a broad attack it was important to keep an synchronised pressure on all the parts of the front , to avoid the germans from shifting theirs meager reinforcements or time to resupply , also the commanders from brigadiers down to captains were too often incompetents , brutal , drunken sods .
I have info on 1980's soviet military medical Services from a book called "Modern Soviet Weapons". In it it says :"These work on the same basis as for vehicle repair. In that medical facilities will be moved to the area of greatest casulaties, and not vice versa.The existing medical services could never hope to deal with the mass casulaties of nuclear war without a vast influx of civilian personel and reservists, and even conventional war would stretch their capacity to the limit.The primary aim would be to return as many men to the battlefield as possible: Sub Units would have medical orderlies, battalions dressing stations, while the first echelon at which proper treatment could be given is division."
. During WW2 , a fast ticket to the penal battalions was helping a wounded mate to the rear , he was supposed to wait or make it on his own ! the folklore is that even badly wounded , soldiers would rather stay with their mates than risk the medical system and be separated permanently from their unit :-? generals asked reapetedly for their men to be brought back ,as a standing policy .
True, but neither Italy nor France ever became fully Communist due to the majority of the voters being against it (Communist parties never got more than 30% of the votes if I remember correctly). Also, these Communists, as well as the ones from most Eastern European countries, were not nearly as gritty and sweeping as the ones in Asia.
Totaly off topic So you never heard of operation Gladio? Started as stay behind operation in case of the war with eastern block, but became waepon in internal political fight against left in number of countries: before you go: "not wiki again" this is based on the book and research: NATO's secret armise: Operation Gladio and terrorism in western Europe by Daniele Ganser at the Center for Security Studies (CSS) and Swiss Federal Institute of Technology of Zurich (ETH Zurich) (great resource site on cold war i might add) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gladio There is a very good BBC documentary in 3 parts about this operation, where those who perpetuated terrist acts (bombings ( in particular concerning the 1969 Piazza Fontana bombing, the 1972 Peteano attack by Vincenzo Vinciguerra, the 1980 Bologna massacre) and murders (including Aldo Moro) in Italy, murderous robberies and stealing of weapons in Belgium...) were quite happy to talk about it. Even some old OSS guys were talking about it quite openly. You can watch it here: http://www.informationliberation.com/?id=16921
. Tiso ! you are such a romantic , everybody with a basic interest in current affairs know that the conspiracies theories involving the CIA are in fact planted by the agency itself , to hide their total incompetence at astronomical cost to the american taxpayers . While their failures are many and public , their success are " classified " which means non existent , their plotting was of the primary school type , such as exploding cigars and depilatory oinments , they believe james bond to be an historical character under jesus angelton they did a pretty good effort to rip themselves to bit on the hearsay of a suspicious KGB triple agent The only things they could do successfuly was stand on a balcony throwing wads of greenbacks to any louche character pretending to be anti-reds and getting south americans liberals butchered :smok: at all times they had ( have ) the uncanny ability to find drug lords and give them help , they probably are now cozzying up to the afghan poppy warlords !! .
the the cia had some succesful ops and some not so succesful ops ,in the end their side won ,they did play some dirty pool ..but then , thier game is a dirty pool kinda game ,no?...you got to break a few eggs to make an omelet someone once said...
Thank you for the compliment that is not really true. :smok: Now it is you that's giving them too much credit. CIA and KGB were organisations that operated (CIA still is) on Ideological drive. As shuch had uncany ability (to borrow the term) to run idiotic operations that could be succeses in short term but back fired on the long run. Just take a good look at latin america, Africa and mid-east. They have good competent proffesional poeple on mid and low levels (sometimes even on high level), but whenever you are running on ideology you are bound to screw up. Acctualy not efficient way to run the kitchen if you are breaking eggs left and right and not cleaning your own mess, becouse than they will rot and salmonella and other nasty things can poison you. Woody it ain't funny if you are one of the eggs.
. I totaly agree with tiso on the short term tunnel vision of ideological warriors not so much the way of making omelet ,shells have to be removed providing factual , relevant , timely information to one's government is the first function of intelligence the " action " part is usually self-indulgent rubbish run by ignorant thugs or middle class accountants with delusion of being SPIES like in the movies , the use of assassinations sould be handled by a totally separate structure with no contacts with any government paycheck whatsoever , to, very rarely , resort to it should be seen for what it is , a statement of failure :-? .
A PROPER assasination done by a competent operative today would appear to be a heart attack or stroke ...radiation poisoning kind of defeats the purpose of a murder done to appear as a natural cause death kind of thing ..the kgb is slipping a bit these days it seems..
. yep , its downright garrish ! the murder equivalent of day-glow :evil: also , the timing was so rotten for putin that , like the politikovna business either someone was trying to embarass him or , more likely he had lost control of the raincoat brigade :-? the second possibility is the realy scary one , goons running free .
