Why was U-571 so crap!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by talleyrand:
The recon plane was a single engine fighter.Real recon aircraft was the FOUR (4) engine FW-200. Single engine craft had too short of range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I noticed that as well, what a stupid film!

 

More Uboat info.

U 571 would only have gone under if it had been hit below the waterline as it was surfaced, and if it penetrated both outer and inner hulls of the Uboat. In the movie, I do not recall seeing such a hit and its been over a year since I saw it last. Had it penetrated both hulls, yes it would have sank.

Uboat crews were indeed armed with MP-38/40s Mauser K-98 Rifles, MG-34s and MG-40s and Navy Lugers "6" inch barrels. I will have a large photo coming in in a few weeks from Sweden that shows a Uboat Officer with an MG-34 and a crewman with a K-98, and they are attempting to detonate sea mines by shooting at the posts. I will ask Otto to post that photo where ever he can so you can see it.

Uboat crews also had a full issue of M-35 helmets and Tropical issud helmets, which were kept in a helmet rack that stacks one on top of the other and as a helmet is taken the next one rises a bit because of a tension spring in the rack. Uboats also carried Stickgrenades.

It wasnt a normal practice to keep a deckgun loaded even while submerged, but is possible that they had seen surface action and had loaded the deckgun and was cought on the surface by air attack and they had no time to fire the weapon and submerge.

I dont remember the type of recce aircraft used, but it could have been anykind of Luftwaffe aircraft from any nearby Luft Airfield.

There is a "hatch" which was on every Uboat, that can be opened from the inside, which was used to scuttle the uboat when they were seuuendering or just abandoning ship. A famous case of this was U 505. Hans Goebeler of U 505, was the man that "pulled the plug" on U 505 when they were surrendering to the USS Guadalcanal. Hans describes this in his book. We had talked about this over the phone when I was able to talk to him in the few months before he passed away on Feb 20th 1999.

There is an organization called: "Shark Hunters" which is ran by a person who is a jerk, and who claims that Hans Goebeler was not the man who pulled the plug on U 505. This was a hell of a sorry accusation to make as this jerk was NOT there when this happened.

There used to be many prominant Uboat aces and commanders who were members of that Organization who have now since quit it because of their practices. Men like: Erich Topp, Reinhard Hardegen and many more.

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by C.Evans:
More Uboat info.

Uboat crews were indeed armed with MP-38/40s Mauser K-98 Rifles, MG-34s and MG-40s and Navy Lugers "6" inch barrels. I will have a large photo coming in in a few weeks from Sweden that shows a Uboat Officer with an MG-34 and a crewman with a K-98, and they are attempting to detonate sea mines by shooting at the posts. I will ask Otto to post that photo where ever he can so you can see it.

Wow. I did not know that!!

Uboat crews also had a full issue of M-35 helmets and Tropical issud helmets, which were kept in a helmet rack that stacks one on top of the other and as a helmet is taken the next one rises a bit because of a tension spring in the rack.
>>

Ahh...inspiration for the Pez dispenser?

Uboats also carried Stickgrenades.

It wasnt a normal practice to keep a deckgun loaded even while submerged, but is possible that they had seen surface action and had loaded the deckgun and was cought on the surface by air attack and they had no time to fire the weapon and submerge.

I dont remember the type of recce aircraft used, but it could have been anykind of Luftwaffe aircraft from any nearby Luft Airfield.>>

IIRC it was single engined and had what looked to be 4 20mm cannon sticking way out of the leading edge of the wing like a Typhoon. The FW-190 (some models) had 4 20mm cannon but did not have the uhh...sleeve? looking thing over the barrels (think of the Spit V, that's what I refer to, don't know what you'd call that feature, but the aircraft in U-571 was so equipped.)

There is a "hatch" which was on every Uboat, that can be opened from the inside, which was used to scuttle the uboat when they were seuuendering or just abandoning ship. A famous case of this was U 505. Hans Goebeler of U 505, was the man that "pulled the plug" on U 505 when they were surrendering to the USS Guadalcanal. Hans describes this in his book. We had talked about this over the phone when I was able to talk to him in the few months before he passed away on Feb 20th 1999.

There is an organization called: "Shark Hunters" which is ran by a person who is a jerk, and who claims that Hans Goebeler was not the man who pulled the plug on U 505. This was a hell of a sorry accusation to make as this jerk was NOT there when this happened.>>

@$$holes are one thing there is an all too prevalent supply of.

There used to be many prominant Uboat aces and commanders who were members of that Organization who have now since quit it because of their practices. Men like: Erich Topp, Reinhard Hardegen and many more.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>>>

Considering, I am hardly surprised.

Thanks for the very informative posting,
-Tim

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Gibson:
As for Band of Brothers, in all likelihood it wont hold a candle to the old Combat! episodes which I still tape and watch today! Why? Because itll go for the 'realistic' Hollywood depiction of WWII and come off worse then SPR did. Instead of being a fun, action oriented film, Spielberg will ruin it and make the German soldier out to be a complete Nazi and again, as with SPR make them out to be the evil, ruthless killer's they werent...

Thank goodness Stephen Ambrose had nothing to do with the project!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't really see what you mean that germans in SPR were portrayed as crazy killing nazi's. Actually i thought that there was very little "propaganda" or whatever like that. I thought that the german soldiers were portrayed rather how they were in real life. Take the scene when the german killed the guy with the bayonet in the end fight scene. when the german soldier left down the stairs...he saw that "Upam" was scared as a baby...and let him be...very noble...and something that i could see happening in real life...that doesn't seem very ruthless to me.
In fact i can't really remember any point in the movie where the german soldier in SPR were portrayed as Crazy nazi's...or as ruthless killers. All i remember is germans fighting like they probably did. Actually...the only "ruthless" part of the movie 9i can remember actually came from 2 american soldiers at the end of the d-day scene...who shot 2 surrendering germans. Otherwise...i think SPR was the most realistcly portrayed war movie ever...and if you know of anything contrary to uphold your point i'd love to hear it!!

 

It was 505, not 551. Is 505 still in Chicago(?) on display?
The recon plane was the nail in the coffin for me. IIRC, (I saw the movie opening night and wont watch it again), they were talking about being in the mid-atlantic and suddenly a single engine plane pops up. I couldnt tell what kind it was, but at that time the Jerry's can barely get a fighter to London and back. No way its in the mid atlantic.
The only thing SPR did that I thought was lame, was that the AFV's dont fire their MG's. Notice that? Infantry are scurrying around in front of them and they only fire their main guns.
I saw Captain Correli Saturday, and it was OK. It wasnt bad, Cage's Italian accent is horrible, but the movie was Ok. Dont rush right out to see it, but I would suggest renting it.
If U-571 was a 2 out of 10
Correli would be a 6

 

Smokestack: That was also something I wasnt aware of until over the last few years about uboats with all kinds of small arms. We learn something new every day eh?

Liked your Pez Dispenser joke

Thanks for the Aircraft info.

I also agree with your last two comments too.

Tallyrand: Yep, U 505 is still on display in Chicago. Every year the surviving vets still get together. There are now only 5 U 505 crew still living.

If ever in Germany, you can see the following Uboats on display. U 2540 at Bremerhaven (Hope I got the number right) it is a type XXI. Then you have U 995 in Laboe which is the only surviving type VII-C still existing, then you have U 10 which is in Wilhelmshaven.

 

In Saving Private Ryan, it was not propaganda, but the fact that Steve S had the German soldiers fight like they didn't have a clue! I'm not going to go anyfurther than saying that it was in the 'fight scene' at the end. The Germans had four years of battle experience, even with new recruits 'old hands' would have lead the 'green' troops and taught them the 'tricks of the trade'.

And in U-571 the americans knew the gun was loaded, it shouldn't have been, there was no chance. Thge whole film sucked big time!

And it is possible to have a film that is accurate, it doesn't have to entirely accurate like 'that division didn't have those vehicles!' and it is possible to have it entertaining for the average joe as well. Its just not possible for Hollywood!

 

dp

[ 20 August 2001: Message edited by: Madcap7 ]

 

I got the impression that in SPR The germans were not fighting oddly or inexperianced ish. In fact the germans were about to win the battle if it wasn't for those mustangs (i admit that the bombing looked fake though) But nonetheless the germans were about to defeat the US forces in the end of the movie...if it wasn't for those Mustangs...which is pretty accurate...because the german armor was very much afraid of air attack. In which they had liitle defence.


oh and what does "dp" stand for?

 

I would tend to agree with you Ron, The germans were not good guys or bad guys, just enemy soldiers, How else is one supposed to regard them

 

Couple of Observations:

1. The German in Band of Brothers is really a faceless enemy which works fine as the story focuses on the Americans. Compared to SPR the German killed in the barn in episode 4 did not strike me as a evil guy just somebody scared in the situation he found himself in.

2. Was I the only one who found it odd that a German destroyer was in the middle of hte Atlantic?

Regards

Paul

 

D.P. = Displaced Person.

Question, Why is it so odd that there was a German Destroyer in the middle of the Atlantic?

In fact, there is nothing odd about that. Now what would have been odd to see would have been a German Battleship in the middle of the Atlantic at that stage of the war.

Just because the Battleships basically stopped operations didnt mean the rest of the Kriegsmarine surface navy did. In fact, the German Destroyers were in operation all over the ocean even untill the end or after the ending of hostilities. True, they were mostly employed as evacuation ships--like at Riga, but they also had many other missions.

 

What is strange about a German destroyer in the middle of the Atlantic?

1. How did it get there?
2. What the Devil is it doing there??
3. How on Earth does the crew think they're going to get back???

Especially 2 is the clincher. Let's assume the destroyer has somehow evaded aerial detection. What would a German DD be doing in the Atlantic? Hunting British subs chasing German convoys?

Come on..

 

yeah i agree...german DD's did operate all the way till the end of the war but only in costal operations. There really is no reason for a german DD to be BY ITSELF in the middle of the atlentic...it surley would have been attacked by aircraft. Heck the subs couldn't even get away from aircraft let alone the destroyers!
Looks like a small error but i'll live with it!!

 

See, the Destroyer was there to launch the single engine German patrol plane that showed up in the middle of the Atlantic

 

I think the Allies should have tried to capture the destroyer as obviously it was powered by seawater. Certainly a diesel fueled destroyer wouldnt have been able to operate so far from home!

 

Dear Andreas, im not sure at how to answer #1 and #3 questions without sounding snide and rude, but I will try for #2.

#2) What is it doing there? Any number of possibilities. It could have been part of a convoy of some type as anti sub protection.. it could have been the escourt to a ship like The Wilhelm Gustloff--even though that would be farther out than would be believable for the Gustloff to have been sailing. The Zerstorer could have been on a rendezvoux of somekind...maybe with a wolfpack? there were still wolfpacks at that stage of the war. It could have been somekind of a picket ship on patrol.... or, it could have been on its way home from some other place? or it could have been there by chance??

I agree that there might have been no reason for the Zerstorer to be out there, but then again, just how FAR was "out there?". I strongly disagree with what was said that Zerstorers were only operating in coastal operations--that is not true.

They had escourt duties, resupply missions--etc. Yes it would be unlikely thet would have gone undetected from allied aircover, but its possible..

Contrary to possible popular belief--not all German surface warships were sunk in ww2. I dont know how many survived, but some did and were given to other countries like possibly Norway, or Finland or some other country even France maybe???

Just my 5 pfennigs worth...

 

An aircraft carrier, several Destroyers, and scores of E-Boats, minelayers, U-boats and other vessells were captured by the Allies after the war. The Russians captured many of these boats, as they were hiding in the Baltic(the rest were hiding in Norway), the Russians kept the ships they wanted, the vessels they didnt keep they passed on to their Allies or scrapped them. Many of these ships were returned to East Germany to form her Navy in the Fifties. The Western Allies, for the most part, destroyed captured German boats.
A side note is that the Chinese bought most of the former East German ships from re-unified Germany in '91, some of these were ships that served in WWII

 

And if you ever go to Wilhelmshaven, Germany, you will find a large museum in Jadestr, before you get to the Esplanade. This museum has U 10, (Last commanded byb Juergen Weber of The Munich Submariners Association) plus a minesweeper and a turret from a warship-all on display outside.

The museum has much info on German Destroyers-or did when I was there last year. They had films and pamphlets, books etc. They had some very good info on Zerstorer ops, but I wasnt able to buy any books as that section was already closed when Susanne and I arrived. We barely had time to tour the Minesweeper and U 10, before the doors were shut. I took a cool picture through U 10s periscope, but still havent had it developed yet

 

I don't get it, you say you know people who've served on U-boats and yet you insist on the possible existance of a German DD in the middle of the Atlantic?

"#2) What is it doing there? Any number of possibilities. It could have been part of a convoy of some type as anti sub protection.."

Give me an example of one German convoy in the Atlantic during WW2. There are none. And certainly not at this point in the war. There are some things that could be called 'convoys' maybe close inshore, for example all u-boats that left port would be preceded by a big ship full of empty barrels to clear mines. It is possible that a destroyer might come along too, for sport. But that would end before being out of sight of land.

"it could have been the escourt to a ship like The Wilhelm Gustloff--even though that would be farther out than would be believable for the Gustloff to have been sailing."

And what, pray, would the Gustloff be doing in the middle of the Atlantic (by then a hospital ship, BTW). There were no German merchantmen in the Atlantic. They were all interned or sunk or had managed to get back home in '39. A few - very few - resupply vessels managed to stay around until 1941, I believe.

"The Zerstorer could have been on a rendezvoux of somekind...maybe with a wolfpack?"

And what could the DD give the wolfpack? The DD wouldn't even have the range to reach a wolfpack that is in the middle of the Atlantic. And rendezvous between DDs and SSs never happened, AFAIK.

"there were still wolfpacks at that stage of the war. It could have been somekind of a picket ship on patrol...."

Come on, patrolling against or for what? If you're thinking of having a DD in a sort of u-boat supportive role (I'll find the convoy, you go get it) you must realise that the life expectancy of the destroyer is pretty close to zero as soon as it has found one.

"or, it could have been on its way home from some other place?"

There were no German DDs operating abroad in any place that would force them to cross or sail through the middle of the Atlantic.

"or it could have been there by chance??"

I'm afraid that this is what the makers of the film decided should be the case. It's sort of sad when you think about it!