Overlooked Heroes of WW2-Britain

Richard Annand-awarded first VC of the war for saving his batman despite being badly wounded himself.

Lionel Crabb-British Naval Officer serving as a mine and bomb disposal expert on Gibraltar who helped to keep Italian ports open for Allied shipping.

Edward Fogarty Fegen-awarded posthumous VC for sacrificial gallantry as commander of HMS Jervis Bay, which fought a delaying action against the Admiral Scheer, allowing the convoy the ship was escorting to flee from certain destruction at the hands of the menacing German battleship.

James Magennis and Ian Edward Fraser-Carried out an attack on a Japanese Cruiser in Singapore in 1945 using midget X-craft submarines.

Frederic 'Johnny' Walker-Master U-boat Killer, responsible for killing 7 U-Boats. Went on to command 2nd Escort Group, but died soon after.

 

What's a "batman", I haven't heard that, at least in a military context, before?

 

In basic terms Doc, its a servant. Only higher ranking Officers get Batman, stating with Lt-Cols, at least these days.

The Batman sort the Officers kit and bassically looks after him. They are usually an NCO. If you have seen a Bridge to Far, there is the bit where Johnny Frost is having his kit packed, and he asks the guy to pack his dinner suit. The other guy is his Batman.

 

Bish, I always wondered about the Batman concept since I first saw it in a British WW2 RAF film.

How is this job considered? A "cushy" job? Is it something you would want to do? Do they "reserve" these jobs for certain people (x-years of service come to mind)? Or is it something you don't want to be found dead in (as the saying goes)?

 

WOW! I just happened to watch "A Bridge too Far" last night - I understand exactly what you mean! Thanks!

 

Well, its not a job that i'd like to do. The thought of waiting hand and foot on officers does not appeal. I would not even work in either the sergants or Officers mess. I joined the army to be a solider, not a servant. Sorry for the rant, but this is one of the things about the British army that i am totally against.

I am not 100% certain how you get this job. I guess it would copme from working in the mess.
But, a mate of mine who once worked in a Sergantys mess was recently offered the job of a Brigadiers Batman. He got the offer because he was quilified as a silver service waiter and had experiance of working in a mess. He told me that his duties would be similar to that of a butler runniong a big house. Arranging dinner parties, sorting the Brigs kit and basically running the house.

You don't often come across batman these days. As i said before, i think the lowest rank that has them are Lt Cols, which would include Battalion Commanding Officers. But you don't often here mention of the COs Batman. I believe they have an option as to wether they have one.

It is a cosy job in one respect. But just as working in the mess is cosy in one way, it also involves long hours and hard work.

Its cosy in the fact that you don't get stuck with guards duties or any of the other crap. You would have to have been in the Army a few years to be a Batman. At least a L/Cpl, responsable and well disciplined.

But, its not the life for me.

 

Way to go Ryan--thanks for mentioning Captain Richard Wallace Annand of the Durham Light Infantry. I have the priviledge of having a signed copy of the book about the DLI's Victoria Cross Recipients thanks to my friend Paul who lives near him.

I also recieved a Christmas Card from him last year--which shows him wearing his rack of medals. He is a very nice gent--and I hope to have the pleasure of exchanging more letters with him in the years to come.

Another name that must be mentioned is: Adam Wakenshaw also of the Durham Light Infantry who was killed in the desert war. He was badly wounded and was operating a 2 pdr gun against some of Rommels Panzers. Paul graciously sent me a picture of Wakenshaws battle-carred gun. He truely was a very brave British Soldier.

 

Absolutely Carl-Annand could certainly not be left out of such a discussion.

 

Ryan you did a great job mentioning these men--lets see if we can have more name smentioned when possible. I dont want the men of the UK--to be left out.

 

This thread has got me searching. When i get home and have more time, i intend to list the 5 men from the Royal Norfolk Regiment who recieved the VC in WW2.

 

Thanks Bish--that would be great to see them listed here.

 

As Bish says above, these days only half-colonels and above have these.

However, during WW1 ALL officers had them (from Second Lieutenant upwards) and the same at the beginning of WW2. However, as the war progressed, it seems that only Majors and above had them. (i.e. Company commanders upwards)

As Bish says, its not a job I'd want, but it was seen as a "cushy" number in both world wars; certainly in WW1 many batmen had been domestic servants in civvie street.

 

Bish, Sommecourt, thanks for the insights!

Wouldn't be the job for me either.

As to the VC of the Norfolks; I just ran across a special VC site which lists them all. I use the site for info for my own upcoming website.

lemme see.... http://www.chapter-one.com/vc/ And there you have them all....

By coincidence I also looked into the Royal Norfolk VC winners. Most were in France I believe...I have the data at home...

[ 08. January 2003, 04:44 AM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

Hi Stevin,

Yes that's a great VC site, but the one thing you have to watch are the VC Citations; they are not exactly as per the London Gazette ; he seems to have paraphrased them. This could have something to do with copyright, but I doubt it?

The London Gazette is now also on-line and has its own website:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/

 

Hi Sommecourt,

Thanks for that. I usually keep to the citations as on the Commenwealth War Graves Commission site. But I am sure that the Gazette knows what they are talking about

BTW do you know why they spell Sergeant as serjeant on the CWGC site?

 

The london Gazette has a similar error, it allows you in avanced search critera to search its archives up to the 29th century......

 

Ye, thats not a bad site. Thats the one i was ging to use. Of all 6 Royal Norfolk VCs, 3 were won in France, including one in WW1.
Stevin, do you have a link for the CWCG site.

 

The spelling isnt exactly a mistake as it is what is written on all the war graves I have seen. Look on the menin Gate, they spell it that way all over it. To be honest when i first saw it (when i was but a wee lad) I thought that someone had spelt it wrong in one place and so they decided to spell it wrong all over so that they didnt look stupid. Now i think it is more to do with that being the original spelling. Any thoughts?

 

Well...that might come in handy....

http://www.cwgc.org/

Stefan: I mailed the CWGC about this a while back but haven't received an answer. Actually I have never received an answer to any of my queries. I am sure they are horribly understaffed.

Actually, I do think they use some kind of ancient spelling. Thing is, they don't seem to do it consequently...

[ 08. January 2003, 02:56 PM: Message edited by: Stevin Oudshoorn ]

 

The British spelling of Sergeant as "Serjeant" was common up to the 1920s. All records inn WW1 spell it with a J, and the abbreviation for it on WW1 medals is "Sjt" and not "Sgt".

It changed sometime in the 20s; why, I don't know. But, in theory, that is the spelling which was used in WW2.

I think it owes its spelling to the Napoleonic period - but I have never found a satisfactory answer!