Rudolph Hess

Let's talk about Rudolph Hess.

He flew to England (Schotland) in Mai 1941. Was held in the tower of London untill Nurenberg. He was kept in prison untill his death in 1981.

Why did he flew to England and did he had a very important meeting with the Duke of Hamilton who crashed with his plane in the same neighbourhood around the same date?


Was he shot immediately and replaced by a double at Nurenberg?

Why did the British say he was a mental disabled person and in Nurenberg he was treated a war criminal? Didn't they had to put him in a hospital?

Did he killed himself in 1981 or was he killed?

 

Sorry, Albert Speer died in 1981.
Rudolph Hess died in Augustus 1987, 93 years old.

 

Hmmm, this is another one we´ll probably never know. To cut along story short: Hess was losing his place among top nazis and he aimed to make such a big deed that he would be back in Fuhrer´s favour..And peace with England was that.

But that´s not it all:
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Roy Nesbit, a Royal Air Force pilot during World War Two and a researcher at the Public Records Office:"Hess was misguided enough to believe that the Duke of Hamilton was involved in a Peace Party, which he wasn't," he said.

Edinburgh University's professor David Stafford:
Hess thought he could interpret the Fuhrer's wishes, even if Hitler didn't know them himself.

"He was convinced that Hitler shared his view, that it might still be possible to find a rapprochement with Britain, and that the deal which had slipped though their fingers at Munich could be rescued."

Professor Stafford admitted that military intelligence did intercept a letter Hess wrote to Hamilton suggesting peace talks.

Hamilton never replied to the letter because he never received it - MI5 saw to that

"In reality, Winston Churchill wanted to use Hess quite differently," Professor Stafford insists.

"He wanted to make a propaganda coup out of the capture, parading Hess as a sign that the Nazis were divided amongst themselves."

But documents show that the prime minister lost the cabinet argument to ministers who were in favour of the disinformation campaign.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/1326958.stm
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I also read that Hitler was in contact with the British peace movement ( probably 1940 before BoB ) but whatever he sent them went straight to Churchill as Winston was the "leader" of this movement actually.

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Seems like there was no hope for Hess´ flight in the first place though some evidence says that RAF was ordered not to attack, and thus knew he was coming. As well it is said if he had landed on the air field the negotiations would have been started but as he jumped and used the parachute and was found by a local the politics had to be changed against the negotiations.

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Anyway, these are just some ideas of mine.Let´s see how other people think about this...



[ 12. January 2003, 01:17 PM: Message edited by: Kai-Petri ]

 

I think as Kai said we will never really know.

I do believe that the real Rudolf Hess did not appear in Nuremberg. I will go into the facts if you want me to, but a good book to read on the subject is:

Hess, A Tale of Two Murders
By Hugh Thomas

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Another good book on Rudolf Hess' life is:

My Father, Rudolf Hess
By Wolf Rüdiger Hess

This book was writen by his son to try and get his Father released.

 

I agree with you guys--we will never know--but--I do remember seeing a documentary on it on the History Channel about a year ago--it was hosted by Arthur Kent and I might have it on tape. Anyway--it was suggested that Hess might have been killed by some Isrealis who were posing as prison medial staff. I think his cause of death was the cord to a lamp was wrapped about his neck--or something like that.

 

I heard on a history channel that the British used early psychtrophic drugs on him to get answers out of him and that is why he was not fit to stand trail. But it still is curious that he was kept in prison longer than anybody else and at great expense.

 

Carl is right, he was found with a cord around his neck.

I do believe, after reading A Tale of Two Murders, that the person at Nuremberg was NOT Rudolf Hess.

[ 13. January 2003, 03:06 AM: Message edited by: Kiwi Ace ]

 

After the Battle had an article on Hess in an early issue. and I will try to find it.

But this is what I do remember from the article.

Hess, was taking flying lessons in an Me 110, deliberately so he could borrow a plane to get to England, with the mistaken view that he could somehow bring about peace between Germany and Britain.

He was kept in isolation during his imprisonment until the Nuremburg trials (this could explain his mental state)

He was used as a political pawn by both the Allies and the Russians while at Spandau prison. That's the main reason why he wasn't released.

And supposedly, this frail old man, who could hardly walk, and whose mental state was questionable, hanged himself using the light cord from a garden shed. Possible but unlikely.

When I find the article I'll post more details.

But personally, I think that the way Hess was treated, in not being released after the other war criminals, who did much worse things, which meant that he couldn't spend his last years with his family, was cruel and inhumane. Considering his health was failing, you think they could have let him go home and die in his own bed.
_____________________

In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies. - Winston Churchill

 

The 'After The Battle' Hess issue was no. 58.

I'm reading this thread with interest as I'll admit that I am totally confused by the whole affair - there have been so many books about Hess, with all manner of theories - I just haven't got time to read them all ! ( Even D*v*d *rv*ng got in on the act with 'Hess : The Missing Years' ).

 

Picking up some pieces of information in the net on Hess´flight. If you´ve heard of them or found out something´s total rubbish I wish you´d tell that. I mean there were lots of rumours and propaganda used to cover his flight.

http://www.thirdreichpages.org/hess3.htm

In order to obtain office with Churchill, he needed someone with connections to the British Prime Minister. Hess remembered back to 1936, during the Olympic Games in Berlin, he met the Duke of the Scottish duchy of Hamilton and the two men exchanged friendly banter. Certain that the Duke of Hamilton would remember him, Hess decided to fly to Scotland and meet the Duke at his home and then Hess would be taken to see Churchill.

He wrote a letter to his Fuehrer but it was to be given to Hitler only in the event that his mission failed. In the letter, he explained his mission and expressed that he was going through with it out of loyalty to Hitler. He closed it with: "And if by chance, My Fuehrer, this project, which I admit has but a very small chance of success, ends in failure and the fates decide against me, it will always be possible for you to deny all responsibility. Simply say I am crazy." ( Anybody heard of this letter before? )

Hess gave the letter to his two loyal adjutants and instructed them to personally hand it to Hitler if they do not hear from Hess within four hours of his take off to Scotland.

On the morning of May 11th, Hitler was doing light paperwork in his office at the Berghof, his home in the Bavarian Alps. Albert Speer, Hitler's architect, was in the outer office waiting to meet with Hitler to discuss some architectural plans. Albert Bormann (Martin's brother) was seated at the front desk. Rudolf Hess' two adjutants entered the outer office carrying the letter that Hess left behind. They approached Bormann and told him they had a very important message for the Fuehrer from Rudolf Hess. Bormann, told them that the Fuehrer cannot see them now and that they should leave the letter at the desk and Bormann will deliver it to Hitler later. The two adjutants, however, were persistent and they reported that they are under orders to deliver the message to Hitler personally. Bormann finally gave in, rolled his eyes, and informed Hitler that Hess' adjutants needed to see him. Hitler promptly asked them into his office and closed the door. After a few moments, Speer heard Hitler scream "an inarticulate, animal-like outcry." The office door flew open and Hitler began screaming in on of the worst rages of his life. He ordered the arrest of the two adjutants, screamed for Martin Bormann and began pacing back and forth in his office pointing his finger to his head and yelling that Hess had gone crazy. Since he had not heard news from England, he hoped that Hess did not reach his destination. He ordered weather reports and when he was told that there was bad weather in northern England, he calmed down a bit and exclaimed, "Let's hope that he crashes into the sea!"

When Josef Stalin found out about it, he was very suspicious and he feared that Hitler and Churchill were plotting something together.


Hitler further abolished the office of Deputy Fuehrer and replaced it with the office of the Head of the Reich Chancellery, and he named Martin Bormann as the new head.
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http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2106/hess/h_czech.htm

Czech pilots almost killed Hess

Yet outside the pilots' log books, there exists no official record of their mission.
The Czech pilots said they were closing in on the Messerschmitt when they were unexpectedly ordered to break off their attack. Bauman recounted his reply: "This is perhaps not possible." The base radioed: "Felix, return, I repeat, Stop action and return. Confirm." Bauman answered: "He is just in shooting range..."

"Sorry Felix, old boy. It is not possible. You must return. Now." Bauman: "I don't bloody know. Then why did we chase him?" Felix Bauman's questionhas not yet been answered. His Squadron Leader J W C Simpson, DFC and bar, demanded an explanation from Fighter Command that would satisfy the two angry Czechs. When they touched down, Bauman remembered Sqd Ldr Simpson telling him: I rang Group and I requested an explanation of that... ehm, unusual procedure. I was told that during your pursuit you crossed the border of our sector. You were therefore recalled. Our neighbours should have taken over but when the German suddenly changed his altitude, they lost him."

+ all kinds of articles on this.Be warned!

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/Congress/2106/hess/sec_c.htm

 

THESE ARE INTERESTING THINGS FOUND IN THE NET ON HESS AND WHAT MIGHT BE BEHIND IT ALL. AT LEAST I THINK AKTION HESS WAS REAL? JUNE 1941 ASTROLOGERS WERE TAKEN TO CONCENTRATION CAMPS DUE TO HESS´FLIGHT? BUT KEEP IN MIND THAT ALL THESE ARE THEORIES.THANK YOU.


http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2991/His-Hitler.htm

Although never made public, a few German astrologers (that is, the ones who were not 'yes-men' to the Nazi party), correctly predicted autumn 1942, to be the turning point of the war, and that Germany would need to win before this time. Hess was aware of these predictions as far back as 1937 (two years before the war even started!), when it was first made by the famous Swiss astrologer, Karl Krafft.

Hitler was aware of astrology's influence on Hess as well - for just after it was learned of Hess's famous flight, Hitler responded with the "Aktion Hess", ordering the Gestapo to arrest over 600 astrologers. Many of them were executed or put in concentration camps - among them, Walter Koch (1895 - 1970) who invented the house system that bears his name and used by many astrologers today.

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http://www.meta-religion.com/Esoterism/Astrology/into_the_twentieth_century.htm

in May of 1941, about three months later, Hess, second in command to Hitler (after Goering) flew to Scotland in an independent attempt to arrange a peace — an attempt rewarded by the Allies with over forty years’ imprisonment. Martin Bormann decided that the best way of presenting the story to the German people would be to announce that Hess was actually insane, and shortly afterwards it was announced that he had been crazed by ‘hypnotists, astrologers and so on’. In Britain, The Times actually reported that Hess had been Hitler’s private astrologer!

This gave the Gestapo the excuse to clamp down on astrology in general, and those who had formerly enjoyed the protection of a sympathetic Himmler (who had arranged the release of one of their number, Wilhelm Wulif, from a concentration camp to work for him and his wife) now found themselves arrested and at worst sent to concentration camps. This delighted a number of members of the Nazi High Command, few of whom admired Himmler, and many of whom regarded him as deranged: Reinhard Heydrich, for instance, used to compare Himmler to another officer, saying ‘One is worried about the stars on his epaulette, and the other about the stars in his horoscope!’ Along with faith healers, clairvoyants, graphologists, Christian Scientists and spiritualists, astrologers were definitely out of favour. Krafft was among those arrested. In prison, he continued to work for a while on astrological propaganda, but at the end of 1944 caught typhus, and in January of the following year died en route for Buchenwald

http://www.calendersign.ric.at/en/topics/turn_of_era1/

In the "Aktion Hess" operation, the Gestapo arrested on 9 June between 300 and 1,000 astrologers and threw them into the notorious Nazi death camps.


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In March 1940 Peter Fleming, the brother of Ian Fleming (the writer of Casino Royale, and the James Bond 007 series of books - see photo below) lay in bed, ill. There he wrote a book called 'Flying Visit'. The book was a 'what if' fiction. It asked: "What if the Fuhrer flew to Britain and made peace?" Perhaps it formed the basis of the greatest 'sting' operation ever carried out.

The ultimate target was probably Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the Abwehr (German Intelligence). There is a suggestion that Canaris was pro-British enough for such a scheme to work. Canaris though was too clever to fall for such a plot. Instead, the plotters chose Hess, the Anglophile, a believer in Astrology and the occult (a common factor amongst many of the Nazi hierarchy, including Heinrich Himmler) whose connections with Britain were through the pro-British Haushofer family.

The Germans knew that a pacifist party existed in Britain. The same month in 1940 that Peter Fleming wrote his book, the Duke of Bedford started publishing and lecturing on making peace with Hitler, producing pacifist literature such as 'Why Blunder on?' and 'The Financiers Little Game.' These anarchistic-socialist views tried to debunk Churchill's views that Hitler must be defeated in all out war. This Peace literature would form the background to the plot to bring Hess to Britain.

In Germany 1940, Albrecht Haushofer (Hess' adviser) suddenly received a letter out of the blue from a family acquaintance by the name of Mrs Mary Violet Roberts. He had not heard from her since the late 1920's early 1930's. It had always been assumed by the Haushofer's that the Robert's family were related to Lord Roberts of Kandahar, though this was incorrect. However, her nephew was Walter Roberts, the Financial Director of SO1, but Hess and Haushofer did not know this. Walter was a high level City stockbroker who was supposedly in charge of SO1's petty cash. He later obtained a CBE for this petty service.

Mrs Roberts posted the letter to Haushofer via a PO box in Lisbon due to the countries being at war. Mrs Roberts was an old lady, but her letters spoke of the possibility of making peace via the Duke of Hamilton, the head of a peace party. Hamilton was a fellow flyer, and someone Hess claimed to have met at the Berlin Olympics of 1936. It is most likely that Mrs Roberts' letters were forgeries, sent to Hess by SO1. Copies of her handwriting could have been obtained directly from her nephew, Walter. Ellic Howe was SO1's master forger and ex-printer, and this would have been a relatively easy thing for him to accomplish.

Hess was completely fooled by the letters Haushofer received. Hess requested Haushofer to try to contact the Duke of Hamilton using his connection with Mrs Roberts. This correspondence between Haushofer, Roberts, and Hamilton on behalf of Hess eventually petered out. It was part of the overall plot hatched by SO1 using forged letters to convince Haushofer that a Peace Party existed in Britain. Haushofer told Hess, and Hess was convinced.

Secret Agents such as Frau Nagenast , an Astrologer who Hess consulted and paid, were employed to produce charts that pointed to the 10 May being a propitious moment for Hess to fly to Britain. Fleming carefully made sure that the Astrological forecasts that Hess received from his usual Astrologers contained very similar information. This was accomplished using intrigue, bribery and forgery.

However, Hess was unlikely to be convinced by just Astrology, the occult, and correspondence through the Haushofers'. Hess needed more substantial proof concerning the Peace Party. The main plot was hatched through SO1's contacts in the banking and commercial world. Leonard Ingrams was probably the mastermind behind this part of the plot. By using British Secret Service agents to establish convincing links with people Hitler and Hess trusted, SO1 could prove to them that the Duke of Hamilton really did have a Peace Party in Britain.

One of the most important people in this scheme was Carl Burkhardt (the former Governor of Danzig, and then Head of the Swiss based International Red Cross - someone who Hess and Hitler trusted implicitly.) Meetings between Burkhardt and Borenius (who had connections with leading British Politicians as an Art dealer and Historian) and subsequently Albrecht Haushofer (Hess' Adviser) helped to convince Hess that a Peace Party led by the Duke of Hamilton existed in Britain.

..Hess now had overwhelming evidence from leading officials that he could fly safely to Britain to meet the Peace Party's leader, the Duke of Hamilton. The Duke, a senior officer in the RAF in Scotland would keep the British fighters away from him so he could land.

It has been conjectured that Hamilton knew about it, and was waiting for Hess, but Hess flew into the wrong airspace and was nearly intercepted by a Bolton-Paul Defiant Nightfighter. It is quite likely that Hamilton did know and was waiting for Hess, and was part of the SO1 plot. It is not an absolute requirement, but there is much evidence to suggest a tentative link with the plot, including a cover-up by Earl Mount Batten to recover papers from the Duke's home when he died.

The ultimate bait was the British offer of a meeting with King George VI, the Emperor of the British Empire. Hess was almost certainly given to understand that he would also meet General Sikorski, the Polish President who was in Newfoundland at the time. He was destined to fly to Britain on the 11th May 1941, to Prestwick, Scotland. Perhaps he was also told he would meet the Duke of Kent. Hess believed that with such people in charge of the Peace Party, and the possibility of being able to arrange a withdrawal from Poland, peace was a real possibility. Churchill would be ousted from power. The bait was placed. The trap was set.

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http://www.members.aol.com/LeonardIngrams/coverup.html

The Duke of Bedford's Archivist applies a 100 year closure rule for all wartime documents. The entire archive has not been sorted out since the Duke's death in 1953.
A book published in 2001 and the recent television programme have suggested that the Duke of Kent was waiting for Hess at Dungavel Castle with a group of Polish officers. Certainly the Duke had a reputation pre-war as a potential peacemaker, but even if he was waiting at Dungavel and switched on the landing lights for the short runway, he could only have been part of the greater plot. SO1 had to make sure that all of the real characters were in place, just in case the Germans had a spy in the camp. After all, the Russians had quite a few spies in the British secret service.

 

I'll point to some facts about why the real Rudolf Hess did not reach Britain:

- In WW1 Hess had been shot in the lung. The prisoner at Nuremberg (As a result of a Post Mortem) had never been shot.

- The pilot the took off from Germany (Hess) had a gap between his front teeth, the prisoner had none.

-Hess took off from Augsburg - the Author believes he could not have made it to England without Droptanks on 110-D. Hess had none.

- There are some odd turns in his flight path.

-The plane that crashed in England was marked NJ-OQ. 110s with the marking NJ-OA to NJ-OX were based in Aalborg DENMARK!

The Author believes that Hess was shot down somewhere off the coast of Holland/Denmark and his plane replaced with one flowen by his double.

 

Okay, just read Issue 58 of After the Battle and this is what their story has to say about Rudolf Hess.

First off, his landing in England was not the first time he had tried it. Hess under interogation claimed that he had actually tried FOUR times. Although other accounts say he only made three attempts. His first being in January 1941.

In September '39, Hess asked Hitler if he could join the Luftwaffe. Hitler refused, and even banned him from flying for a year.

One of his best friends was Prof. Willy Messerschmidt and Hess convinced him to allow him to fly both 109's and 108's from Augsburg, before convincing him to let him fly a 110D. Augsburg was only 50 km from Munich which made it very convenient for Hess.

Each time he flew, he asked for the same aircraft, works number 3869, registration number VJ + OQ. The letters donating that that particular aircraft was for non-operational use for test flights, navigation checks etc.

According to ATB, Due to Hess's privileged position he managed to get certain modification done to "his" 110, including jettisonable 700 litre drop tanks, which would extend the 110's range substantially. Pictures shown in some books reportedly show "Hess's" 110 without drop tanks, however the British recovered a drop tank from the Clyde river following Hess's flight.

Air Ministry photos taken of Hess's crashed 110 show the registration number VJ + OQ. His 110 from Augsburg.

The Duke of Hamilton's name was on a list of name drawn up by Professor Karl Haushofer and his son Albrecht, who both thought that war against England was against Germany's better interests. Prof Haushofer knew Hess quite well, having known him back when both Hess and Hitler had been in prison in Landsberg in 1924. Albrecht Haushofer was an adviser on British affairs in the German Foreign Office. Hess claimed that he had met the Duke at the Berlin Olympics in'36, the Duke said that he never did. After going through all the names on the list, the Duke was selected as the most likley person to approach.

Hess was imprisoned at several places in the UK, always in isolation, until the Nuremburg trials. At the trials, Hess was sentenced to life imprisonment, although the Russians wanted the death penalty.

After much bickering between the principal Allied Powers, it was finally decided that hess and seven other "lifers" would be sent to Spandau Prison. The last of these seven was released fromSpandau in October '66.

In November '69, Hess was transfered to the British Military Hosptial near Spandau, suffering from a perforated ulcer. It was at the hospital that he saw his wife and son for the first time since 1941.

Pleas for his release, or for a shortening of his sentence, began in 1948, and continued up until his death in August 1987. Although the western powers would have been willing to release Hess on humanitarian grounds, as his health failed, the Russians always refused to consider it. During his imprisonment Hess attempted suicide on several occasions.

After his death, there were many reports that the real Hess had died in 1941 and had been replaced by a double. Both his wife and Albert Speer, who had spent quite a time with Hess, both refuted these claims.

The actual circumstances of Hess's death were surrounded by a lot of confusion and half truths.

hess was taken to the British Military Prison near Spandau on the 17th of August 1987.

Originally the official notice said that he had died after bieng rushd to the hospital, then this was changed to hess having died in a gardeners hut in the grounds of Spandau, and yet another report siad he had died in his cell in the prison.

On the 19th of August, the western powers issued a statement (which the Russians had not wished released) stating that Hess had taken his own life. Whilst walking in the garden at Spandau, with his American guard, Hess had sat down in a small cottage. The guard had left Hess alone for a few minutes and when he returned found Hess with a piece of electrical cord around his neck. He had then been taken to hospital where he was pronounced dead. The British Military Government in Berlin also issued a statement saying that a suicide note addressed to his wife, had been found in his pocket.

Hess's body underwent two autopsies, one before his secret burial, and one after. Supposedly, the second one did not agree with the findings of the first. The full details surrounding Hess's imprisonment and death, are held in classified files by the British Government.

So, there's still a lot that isn't known about how he died, and may never be known, unless either the family, or the British government decide to release the details.

I can't see any reason why they would replace him with a double, and what a life that would be for that man, stuck in prison all your life.

No, the way I see it, the real Rudolf Hess died in Spandau, victim of international politics. And if he really did commit suicide, it wouldn't surprise me if he had assistance, or at least, a blind eye turned, from his captors.

We'll probably never know.
____________________

In wartime, truth is so precious that she should always be attended by a bodyguard of lies. - Winston Churchill

 

Just watched a document on Hess and if nothing else "woke" me then it was the relatives saying Rudolf was a pedant man and there was no date in the suicide letter...I believe that the letter was not a real one because he would not have forgotten to write the date!

 

Not really, what I would call hard evidence Kai, I don't think we will ever get to the bottom of this one.

 

Indeed Richard42 we will never get to hear the truth I bet, but the letter obviously was not written by the man. I´ve seen people with certain "musts" and if Hess was pedant ( to the extreme I recall the daughter mentioned ) he would never have forgotten the date....A mistake by those who wrote it. They should have done their home work better...

 

Well we all can live in hope; you never know there may be a very slim chance of the truth will come to light one day. It would be nice to see another mystery of WW2 cleared up.

 

BTW,Richard42

Just recalled about the report ( in the 60´s published ) by the Soviets of the autopsy of the so-called Adolf and Eva Hitler. It can be assumed that Eva died of a schrapnel due to their results so can we really trust that the man was Adolf? Or did someone claim in the Bunker that Eva was hit by one?

Just one example how much we want to trust what we are told...



http://www.ww2forums.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000740

 

This riddle has a simle answer. Adolf and Eva Hitler never died, they were abducted by aliens in that pilotless Me163.

 

It is said that he attempted to suicide several times.

Maybe he had just wrote the letter some time ago,while waiting for an opportunity to suicide, which could explain the fact there was no date onit.

And I don't believe this "double" tale.